French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Hi

we are moving to Vancouver mid Jan and our eldest son will be due to start school in Sep 2016. I'm interested if anyone has any perspective of the pros and cons of French Immersion Schooling?

Also anyone out there who lives in the North Burnaby area have any recommendations on good schools or any to avoid?

x

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

When do they start French Immersion there? My daughter has just started the French component in SK... Are you planning to stay for ever or just a few years? That would influence my decision too as French will leave a lag in their English language reading/writing for a few years to come..

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Beware that people here use French immersion programs as a way of avoiding special needs, aboriginal or ESL children, thus spaces are competitive. If they were my children I’d try an enrichment program that focuses on computer science or at the very least one that uses a STEAM curriculum. IMO, modeling and programming literacies are going to be far more valuable than French.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

What about the value of a second language on children's ability to learn? And are we supposing that our children will be programming in English alone? We chose it to widen her choices when older, of course if it was actively harming her studies then of course we would discontinue and swap to English alone.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I've learnt something today- I read about the Steam curriculum- sounds sensible- more technology based-
On a lighter side I'm just worried about possible Steam immersion- it might not end well!:rofl:
Re French immersion- I'm not sure French is the most useful language to add to the repertoire - no doubt I will get shot down for that opinion- Spanish/Mandarin/Cantonese or Japanese would be more useful I feel. Youngest pup learning Japanese online on a course weirdly based in Prince George.. :confused:

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

You're right in a sense. The brain research seems to suggest that children who grow up in bilingual households benefit but there is little to no evidence that will occur in a language immersion program alone. In fact while many children can manage fairly well, it can be detrimental to some. The children that struggle, often go back into mainstream but do so at a disadvantage to other children and most never really catch up. Point being, FI won't hurt most children, especially those with a lot parental support but there's little evidence other than social capital, that it is advantageous to their development. If it were me, I’d use extra curricula tutoring for a second language rather than put my child in to a specific language program.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

tbf, that probably does come in quite handy from time to time.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

It is, although I was thinking more from the adult point of view. :rofl:

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Is one of you fluent in French? I think attending school in French in Canada was hugely successful for my children but their Mother had been a school teacher in a francophone country; she was competent to deal with homework and such.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I'm not a fan of FI personally. I think there are enough challenges facing children in the learning process as it is without making them do it in a second language. me or mine.here on the west coast absolutely nothing socially or business-wise is conducted in French. I would rather my kids concentrated on their maths and English, science etc in a language they already understand. By all means learn as many languages as you like or are capable of, but to have your schooling entirely taught in a second language? Not for me or mine.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I don't think that's quite true. My daughter mooted in French for UBC (a university in Vancouver) and, in Vancouver, works in French from time to time. You may as well say that nothing is conducted in Portuguese, it certainly is, but unless you speak Portuguese, you've no reason to know.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Does she work for the feds?

Feds seem to be the only ones doing much in French in these parts.





More people speak the following in BC according to Stats Canada then French and probably wiser to learn one or more of these if doing business in the Lower Mainland especially.

Panjabi (Punjabi)
Cantonese
Chinese,
Mandarin
German
Tagalog (Pilipino, Filipino)

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...Lang=Eng&GC=59

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Yes, she works for the Feds. IMO there is absolutely no point in learning Punjabi and very little in learning any of the other languages listed. Canada has many people who are fluent in those languages and English.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

My lot did this, for a short while, the other way round.

I.e. English immersion (euphemistically called the "international program" in QC).

They all hated it, & eventually all ended up back at the local Franco high school, with varying degrees of academic success. Much of the hatred stemmed from a stupidly ridiculous travel time/exclusion from activities with their local friends because of the travel time.

We even ended up homeschooling 2/3 for a while :(.

To cut a very long story short: my offspring's second language skills have nothing to do with their schooling/educational routes. But we are officially classed as a bilingual family, & my mistake was most likely thinking that schooling in the weaker language would help.

Quite a few years after the schooling/language débâcle, 2/3 function equally & exceptionally well in both official languages. However, I don't think [other language] immersion helped.

One can only do anything mathematical in English. T'other manages maths in both languages as long as it's very basic. Third won't even try to add 2+2 without a calculator.

One & t'other can & will dissert, at length, on any & every subject in either language, & switch at will. However, when we discussed this very subject a while ago, both said that immersion screwed them up :(, and they do blame parental decisions for that.

#3 ... Well, she just hates school, full stop.
I do realise we're not a typical sample ;).

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I've dealt with the feds for many years on many levels and never ever had to do so in French. Again, learn French by all means, but to receive you education in it? I just don't get it.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I tend to agree. I did O-level French and one year of German in school. I now speak and read both languages fairly adequately, but this has had nothing to do with school.

ETA: I think O-level Latin did more good for my overall development than either of the above subjects. For example it made learning to use and write computer code much easier to manage.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I'm sort of the same. My mother lives in France and music took me there quite a lot back in the day, plus learning French at school, I would like to think have made me competent; but it could just have easily been German or Spanish. Getting my head around quadratic equations, periodic tables, Shakespeare and Swift was hard enough in English. To have confronted all this in French? Just too much!

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Ah, but how do you fancy studying Racine, Rabelais or Molieres in English? Or Goethe for that matter.

Notwithstanding my previous post, I don't think language of instruction (as opposed to educational philosophy) has a great deal to do with quadratic equations and the periodic table.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

:goodpost:

Latin (to - groan - A level) has probably been the most useful subject I studied at school throughout my adult life. It helped a lot with maths :sneaky:

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

And even less of a reason to learn French in BC, if you don't feel those languages are of value, French is of even less value in this part of Canada.

Only benefit is for those who desire to pursue a career with the feds, but even then it's not necessary here as most don't speak French at any level in BC.




I would have never passed school at all if I was shoved into a foreign language environment....lol... Barely mastered English sufficiently.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I suppose my point is that these subjects are hard enough to grasp, without having to do so in what for most West Coast Canadians would be a second language

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Well, no, people have a right to deal with the Feds in French and so the Feds need people who speak the language, it's not the case that the Feds choose the language with which to deal with individuals.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Not all federal offices however have in person French service..

Just using Service Canada, of the 57 BC offices, only 10 offer in person French service.

The rest are English with phone interpretation available that goes to a call center somewhere (probably back east?)

Service Canada offices in British Columbia

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

You don't speak the language so you don't notice the culture. That daughter worked in French in shops and whatnot in Vancouver (also in Halifax and Montreal) through university; obviously she dealt with customers who wanted to hear French.

I suggest that French, if not strictly necessary for a job with the Feds, is, at least, extremely desirable since, given two equal candidates, they'll take the bilingual one. There are a lot of willing candidates so a unilingual candidate would need to be amazing in some other way.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I'm not sure what's being argued here; that the Federal government hiring policy doesn't favour bilingual candidates, that speaking a second language isn't a good thing or that francophones are poorly served in BC.

In short, it does, it is, and it doesn't matter. If the chance is there for children to learn French through immersion, it's a good idea on its own merits and has ancillary benefits in terms of employment.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Better to learn a more useful language in my view, if one desires to know another language, as most will not be going to cushy federal jobs, the benefit to French seems rather small considering how it's not widely used or spoken in BC, but other languages are and would be more useful if one desires to stay in this region.

I rarely see jobs asking for French, but I do see many asking for a variety of Asian languages as listed earlier, those are the languages companies that do business in BC especially in Vancouver/Lower Mainland seek.

I am more of the mindset if your going to spend time and effort and have the ability to learn another language (not everyone does) may as well learn one that will be of benefit for the region one lives and works in.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I don't think anyone is saying speaking a second language isn't a good thing. Personally though, my view is that having potentially your entire school career taught in a language that isn't your first language (as is invariably the case on the West Coast) is not what I would choose for my own kids.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Well, which one? There's no commercial point in learning an Asian language for use in Canada because there will always be Asian immigrants who speak it better and know English as well. There's no social point because, even if you speak, say, Japanese, you're not culturally Japanese and you're no farther ahead with most Asians than you were speaking only English.

There's a good case for Spanish, being the second language of the continent, but, so long as you want a European language, you may as well take advantage of the government initiatives and learn French.

Bear in mind that it's a child who's being educated, we can only guess what language that child will want later on; I'd never have guessed I'd have a child who lives in Italian. Parents can only aim to keep as many doors open for children for as long as possible, we can't plan which ones they'll go through. It seems to me that speaking French opens some, not speaking French does not.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I think it's interesting that, although my children went to French language schools until the end of high school, they, and most of their contemporaries chose English language universities. That's partly because it's expensive to go to a university in France, especially compared to going to one in the US with scholarship money, and partly because there are more English language colleges visible from Toronto, but it suggests that a francophone education isn't seen as a barrier to continuing education in English.

I concede that the case of children who are bilingual from the point of first speaking is different to that of children who speak only English and are then expected to attend school in another language.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Again, which Asian language? I acknowledge that speaking tagalog would simplify interviewing nannies but which language would be of immediate commercial value? In which Asian language could a European child educated in BC compete successfully against children to whom the language is native who were educated in English in BC?

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

My understanding of learning say Mandarin is that if you are not totally fluent in it and their culture then you stand a good chance of insulting them. Plus as you say Canada doesn't subsidize Mandarin unlike French. The pure fact of your brain learning two languages at an early age will make it easier to pick up a third language if wanted and needed.

Riv P.... Because of the way FI is structured, the complex mathematics you refer to will probably be taught in English at least 50% if not more of the time.

Watching my daughter pick up her numbers/alphabet, simple phrases, songs etc in just three months of school, the way she already uses French words appropriately in sentences interchangeably is pretty amazing. If it stops working or she needs help with English or French then we'll get a tutor and/or stop FI.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

It's easy to say the wrong thing in tonal languages. But this will usually cause people to laugh rather than be insulted and most of the time people are amazed you speak any - at least in my experience. My mandarin was limited to simple shit like 'go to hotel' (and now I've forgotten even that).

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I asked my neighbour's kid this morning (Grade 6) about which language subjects are taught in (she's FI obviously). She said 100% French for everything except English and Music (only music teacher they could get doesn't speak French). I'm sure there are, of course, variations in teaching practice from one school to another. But you have to wonder I think, that if say, maths, has to be taught 50% in English - presumably so it will make sense - whether teaching 100% of it in English would make it even more comprehensible.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

If it's full FI (from G1) why do some kids have difficulties in high school and revert to English? Understandably, writing a magnificent piece of prose in French rather than native English would be harder, but in every other subject (especially math) wouldn't the child's French ability by that age (eg. G10+) be more than adequate to learn and excel in the subject matter?

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

What is the disadvantage, and why do they never catch up??

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Their written English skills are usually pretty poor, their confidence is shot and plus they were are probably kids who'd struggle somewhat anyway. But as I've said before most children, especially those with reasonablly educated and actively involved parents, will be fine in an FI programme.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

Ach. Oink has no direct experience. He's one of those educational theorists who have ravaged the current generation of school kids.

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

:lol:

This made my blood boil a bit this week...

'Times tables are not how you teach maths’ - Telegraph

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

The history of education has never really been about pedagogical methods, we've basically known what to do for 1000s of years. The only variables that have changed are the amount of resources used and access. While obviously inextricably linked, both variables have increased over time. How is that ravaging generations of children? ;)

Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??
 

I was never in French immersion and don't even know if schools in my time in California did any teaching in a foreign language if your first language is English, but I can say once a student starts to fall behind in a public school, it can be difficult to impossible to catch up, teachers lack the time to spend with individual students, and just move onto the next portion regardless, and so on. Became a domino effect, and a few grades of this, you lose any and all confidence in your abilities which creates more hurdles.

If one is a student who isn't suited to the one size fits all educational system, it's a pretty crummy experience, and not conducive to learning, and you walk away with a very negative view of the system and teachers in it.

And of course you didn't graduate at the same level, and so college is even a larger issue and the whole process starts over again.

If one has not experienced what it's like to not learn at the same speed as expected, it may not be the easiest to understand what it's like, and why some students just never really succeed in the system we have in place.