globetrotting

theotherlebowski

scumbags are everywhere sadly...

BristolUK

That's weird. There was a report on CBC this morning about Atlantic Canada immigration fraud via the Atlantic Immigration Pilot Program.

That same $170,000 was quoted as the going rate here.

CanadaJimmy

Not surprising at all. If you have a lot of money then you can usually get what you want. Immigration officers in Canada usually just check for consistency and documentation they can rubber stamp. Spot checks don't happen unless they are reported.

Unfortunately I don't really see any way of preventing this kind of thing, even with criminal charges for those who promote these scams. When you restrict immigration it turns it into a prohibited item, like illegal drugs, so there will always be a immigration "black market" no matter what politicians and bureaucrats do. Canada having a relatively fair immigration system helps a little bit, but there will always be people looking for ways around even that.

Siouxie

From the report linked to above..

BristolUK

Well that explains that then.

When I heard it on the radio, I was convinced it was the national news rather than local and the lead item was Atlantic Canada singled out as the hotspot for immigration fraud. Now I'm wondering if I was mistaken and it was just a local slant.

Novocastrian

Isn't (almost) everything on Canadian news media just a local slant?

BristolUK

Yes, if it's Moncton News reporting something like a major sporting achievement by someone who lived here for 6 months when they were 10

But by national news I meant the same broadcast that CBC puts out all over Canada. Maybe I'm wrong about that too.

Piff Poff

There was the Filipino guy in Edmonton that was helping Filipino's by loaning the money (for a short time to show on the bank statement) to prove funds and charging a lot of money for it. This consultant was also over charging fees. Some people I know had their applications suspended while they were investigated, they hadn't taken part in the shady side of it all.

sun burnt in aus

If countries treated this like it was tax evasion and put in a similar effort I'm sure they would be more effective in rooting out such fraud. Especially in this day and age where following the money is so easy. There was a simple and massive telltale in the article alone that any half-wit accountant would find through the personal bank account records of the "immigrant" with a simple skim through. And there are so many people along the money trail, finding one that get nervous and talks makes it real easy to expose the dealings. Immigration departments specialise in immigration concerns when they need to broaden their focus and recognise that this is more about large and or extended transactions of money taking place and they should be focused on the entity hiring the immigrant, the migration agents and immigrants financial records. Just by making the three parties submit their yearly financial records, in a similar way to taxes, to an auditing entity would curtail many from attempting it. The computing horse power all governments across the globe invest in to analyse financial records to sniff out tax evasion is massive. Adapting it to immigration wouldn't be hard. But the reason they don't, is there's no real return on investment for them other than restricting immigration to legitimate immigrants.

OrangeMango

The question I would have is why would somebody be prepared to pay $ 170.000 or even $ 180.000 for a fraudulent matter? It's a lot of money for nothing and a lot of fear of getting detected.

With the same amount of money one could immigrate as a PR into Canada, and not even work for 5 full years, just spending the money on rent and food and other enjoyment while in Canada,or travelling within Canada and then after 4 years apply for citizenship. Or, if one gets bored of this lifestyle after 6 months, decide to look for a job, any kind of job just to keep the mind from going crazy, or a more qualified job to really keep the mind occupied...

What I am trying to say: 170 K are more than enough for a legal way into Canada with way more enjoyment. Deciding on a fraudulent way and spending 170 K on that, is more than a dumb idea......

Former Lancastrian

Trouble is those paying that amount of money might not qualify for PR status even with over 50 routes to gain PR status.

BristolUK

Providing that person does have an alternative route to PR. I'm guessing that paying $170k for the dodgy route is likely because they don't have a legitimate route to PR.

OrangeMango

When I applied for PR I recall that the key requirements were:

- job experience for more than one year within a role a described in the National Occupation Code
- language skills
- a minor amount of money, I believe it was well below $ 20000.
- 75 points for PR, which was then dropped to 65 points.
- paying the application fee
- a clean police record from every country I lived in.

In my opinion these were requirements anybody with some kind of job experience could have met with a certain ease. Even without a university degree that was possible for me. Even certain manual labour jobs were on the NOC. ( The PR was no "fast track" back then, the whole process of approval took close to 2 years )

Upon approval and successful medical checks the payment of the right of landing fee, and that was it.

Immigration Canada didn't care if I actually worked in Canada in that particular National Occupation Code role, If I was self employed from day one, or if I didn't work at all, and merely would have sustained myself with my own savings. It would all have been perfectly legal.

The next requirements were: Not in trouble with the law and meeting residency requirements.

Citizenship application followed 3 years and a couple of months later and was approved after 7 or 8 months.

The process was simple and straight forward. Anybody with a bit of patience for slow working authorities and a bit of attention to detail would have been able to manage that process. And it's all legal.

So why pay 170 K to a fraudster?

And there are those more rural places in Canada, like in NB or PEI where you can buy a whole house for under 60 K and live comfortably on 20 K p.a. if one is frugal.... It'll be a couple of years once 170 K are spent....

Siouxie

Things have probably changed a lot since you became a PR - it's not that easy to emigrate to Canada anymore.. many people who are perhaps in their mid 40's and above without a degree will really struggle.. it would be an interesting experiment if those who gained PR say in the last 20 years were to use the Express Entry CRS calculator and see if they would qualify now.. see if they could get a decent IELTS result and an Education Evaluation together with the experience they had when they applied originally - and see if that gave them sufficient points.