Fraud
 

Re: Fraud
 

scumbags are everywhere sadly...

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That's weird. There was a report on CBC this morning about Atlantic Canada immigration fraud via the Atlantic Immigration Pilot Program.

That same $170,000 was quoted as the going rate here.

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Not surprising at all. If you have a lot of money then you can usually get what you want. Immigration officers in Canada usually just check for consistency and documentation they can rubber stamp. Spot checks don't happen unless they are reported.

Unfortunately I don't really see any way of preventing this kind of thing, even with criminal charges for those who promote these scams. When you restrict immigration it turns it into a prohibited item, like illegal drugs, so there will always be a immigration "black market" no matter what politicians and bureaucrats do. Canada having a relatively fair immigration system helps a little bit, but there will always be people looking for ways around even that.

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From the report linked to above..

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Well that explains that then.

When I heard it on the radio, I was convinced it was the national news rather than local and the lead item was Atlantic Canada singled out as the hotspot for immigration fraud. Now I'm wondering if I was mistaken and it was just a local slant. :unsure:

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Isn't (almost) everything on Canadian news media just a local slant?

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Yes, if it's Moncton News reporting something like a major sporting achievement by someone who lived here for 6 months when they were 10 :lol:

But by national news I meant the same broadcast that CBC puts out all over Canada. Maybe I'm wrong about that too.

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There was the Filipino guy in Edmonton that was helping Filipino's by loaning the money (for a short time to show on the bank statement) to prove funds and charging a lot of money for it. This consultant was also over charging fees. Some people I know had their applications suspended while they were investigated, they hadn't taken part in the shady side of it all.

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If countries treated this like it was tax evasion and put in a similar effort I'm sure they would be more effective in rooting out such fraud. Especially in this day and age where following the money is so easy. There was a simple and massive telltale in the article alone that any half-wit accountant would find through the personal bank account records of the "immigrant" with a simple skim through. And there are so many people along the money trail, finding one that get nervous and talks makes it real easy to expose the dealings. Immigration departments specialise in immigration concerns when they need to broaden their focus and recognise that this is more about large and or extended transactions of money taking place and they should be focused on the entity hiring the immigrant, the migration agents and immigrants financial records. Just by making the three parties submit their yearly financial records, in a similar way to taxes, to an auditing entity would curtail many from attempting it. The computing horse power all governments across the globe invest in to analyse financial records to sniff out tax evasion is massive. Adapting it to immigration wouldn't be hard. But the reason they don't, is there's no real return on investment for them other than restricting immigration to legitimate immigrants.

Re: Fraud
 

The question I would have is why would somebody be prepared to pay $ 170.000 or even $ 180.000 for a fraudulent matter? It's a lot of money for nothing and a lot of fear of getting detected.

With the same amount of money one could immigrate as a PR into Canada, and not even work for 5 full years, just spending the money on rent and food and other enjoyment while in Canada,or travelling within Canada and then after 4 years apply for citizenship. Or, if one gets bored of this lifestyle after 6 months, decide to look for a job, any kind of job just to keep the mind from going crazy, or a more qualified job to really keep the mind occupied...

What I am trying to say: 170 K are more than enough for a legal way into Canada with way more enjoyment. Deciding on a fraudulent way and spending 170 K on that, is more than a dumb idea......

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Trouble is those paying that amount of money might not qualify for PR status even with over 50 routes to gain PR status.

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Providing that person does have an alternative route to PR. I'm guessing that paying $170k for the dodgy route is likely because they don't have a legitimate route to PR.

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When I applied for PR I recall that the key requirements were:

- job experience for more than one year within a role a described in the National Occupation Code
- language skills
- a minor amount of money, I believe it was well below $ 20000.
- 75 points for PR, which was then dropped to 65 points.
- paying the application fee
- a clean police record from every country I lived in.

In my opinion these were requirements anybody with some kind of job experience could have met with a certain ease. Even without a university degree that was possible for me. Even certain manual labour jobs were on the NOC. ( The PR was no "fast track" back then, the whole process of approval took close to 2 years )

Upon approval and successful medical checks the payment of the right of landing fee, and that was it.

Immigration Canada didn't care if I actually worked in Canada in that particular National Occupation Code role, If I was self employed from day one, or if I didn't work at all, and merely would have sustained myself with my own savings. It would all have been perfectly legal.

The next requirements were: Not in trouble with the law and meeting residency requirements.

Citizenship application followed 3 years and a couple of months later and was approved after 7 or 8 months.

The process was simple and straight forward. Anybody with a bit of patience for slow working authorities and a bit of attention to detail would have been able to manage that process. And it's all legal.

So why pay 170 K to a fraudster?

And there are those more rural places in Canada, like in NB or PEI where you can buy a whole house for under 60 K and live comfortably on 20 K p.a. if one is frugal.... It'll be a couple of years once 170 K are spent....

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Things have probably changed a lot since you became a PR - it's not that easy to emigrate to Canada anymore.. many people who are perhaps in their mid 40's and above without a degree will really struggle.. it would be an interesting experiment if those who gained PR say in the last 20 years were to use the Express Entry CRS calculator and see if they would qualify now.. see if they could get a decent IELTS result and an Education Evaluation together with the experience they had when they applied originally - and see if that gave them sufficient points.:)

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Two friends of mine came recently as PR to Canada. Only thing I noticed is that the application is quicker now, no longer that painful wait of 2 years. University degree didn't seem to be the main requirement, I think. Both were in their late 30ies. I also think that the right of landing fee has gotten cheaper. Some things might have changed, some for the better, some maybe for the worse.

What is now required is a language exam ( even if one is British) and the tax declarations when applying for citizenship. The residency requirement was 3 years when I applied, later extended to 4 years under Harper, and I think now reduced to 3 years again, under Trudeau?

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https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...try/works.html

CRS calculator: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...d/crs-tool.asp

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The Federal economic immigration (eg federal skilled worker, which it sounds like you came under) is completely different now. The 67 points requirement and year of skilled work is only the bare minimum to qualify to try -after that, the applicants are ranked (with the CRS points Siouxie linked to) and the highest scorers are drawn out.

At the moment, being young with a degree, fluent English, and three= years work experience isn't enough - the minimum threshold is higher than that, so everyone drawn will have all of that plus some French skills/postgrad qualifications/Canadian education or work experience/family already living there, and lacking any of that (eg not being in 20s, not having a degree) would need even more to compensate.

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I recall, at time of application I scored 75 points exactly. During the application process it was dropped to 67. I don't know if that was ever applied to me, nor do I care. I think the overall limit of intake of PR immigrants was 300.000 per year and they didn't even reach that target back then.

Provincial Nominee is probably still easier, if one wants to live for 2 years minimum in Saskatchewan or New Brunswick? A friend of mine in his 40ies moved to Saskatoon as a field service technician, with a salary of $ 25 per hour. If one wants to immigrate to Canada they will find a way, and a legal way.

Being Canadian, and trying to move to the UK is even more difficult,and the path to citizenship is longer, more complicated and also more expensive having no UK ancestry and no family there.

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You don't have to care if it being made easier when you applied applied to you or not. The fact is, the system was different then, and what used to be the entire thing is now stage 1. Your belief that anyone can get through it because you found it easy ignores that the process is no longer the same, and that only the top applicants are invited to apply.

Provincial nomination is, again, only 'easier' for people who qualify. The provinces decide what they're looking for. Simply saying "I'm willing to live in New Brunswick for two years" is.... absolutely not enough. Manitoba has been known to refuse applicants for the sin of having taken a vacation in Ontario.

People are paying the fraudsters because they have no route to qualify. If you are not eligible, you are not eligible - so people were paying huge fees to pretend that they were. You're right to say that if people really want to, they'll find a way - but the fact that this is being discussed proves that your second assertion, that it would always be legal, is at best naive; for some people, the only way they can qualify is by faking it. Your friend presumably came through either Sask nomination, or Federal Skilled Trades - both of which have their own requirement, which, again, lots of people don't qualify for.

You seem to believe that anyone in their 40s can just shrug and say "Ok, I'll be a plumber", and a prairie province will beat their door down begging them to move there. That's not how it works.

I don't think anyone who's ever been through the British immigration system has claimed it's easy; that has no bearing on the fact that lots of people aren't eligible to migrate to Canada.

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I understand your point. It's honestly been more than a while when I did it. I also knew of Canadians who came to the UK to settle, and couldn't do it again today, as either the programme or the kind of visa has been cancelled or they face age discrimination during the application. For Europeans going to Canada it's most likely the same.

I've immigrated to both countries and naturalized in both first, Canada and then the UK, and was always aware of the idea "if I don't do it now it will get either more difficult or more expensive, if not both". Raising fees is the easiest any government can do. ILR for Canadians in the UK stands at a whopping 2300 pounds and naturalization a further 1300 pounds, fees, photos, exams and books are extra.... Canada was nearly not even close to that in terms of fees, but that was 15 years ago for me.....

I am sure it will get even more expensive and more regulated in both countries to immigrate to and to get naturalized in. After all, as said, raising fees is the easiest any government can do.

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I came to Canada under family sponsorship 2004; a Canadian wife.
At that point I had been continuously employed in the UK for 31 years but prior to marrying I did the points test and I was nowhere near it. Wouldn't have met the being together for a year condition, so marriage it was.
That should tell you it's not as easy for everyone as it was for you.

This is absolutely true and it doesn't even need to be rural, with a bit more on the house. But being able to afford it doesn't get you PR.