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Final decision

Final decision

Old Oct 23rd 2021, 4:44 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by Tirytory View Post
Hello! I hope you’re gallbladder is healing well?!
I'm getting there. The vegan/vegetarian diet is quite the work though.
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Old Oct 23rd 2021, 5:27 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
I have no value to add to this conversation.

I just wanted to say hello and I hope you are well.

Get Citizenship for the whole family so your children can return should they ever want too. Otherwise make the leap :-)
i agree. Take the leap and once that decision is made, you will feel so much better. It sounds like about a year of disruption and hard work, but you’d only spend that year in bored sadness here anyway, so embark on the moving back project.

I could say something bland like ‘kids are resilient’ but it depends. Some are, some are not, but at around 18-22, they’ll start to be vocal about their perspectives of all the things you did well and all the things you did wrong.😁 You literally cannot please everyone at every stage in life, but be open and clear and allow them some element of the decision making (not the big one about whether to stay or go though) and then start planning.

I wish you well.
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Old Oct 26th 2021, 11:19 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Final decision

We lived a peripatetic life for all of our kids younger years, and when we were in Calgary our eldest was turning 11. We knew that we had to make a decision about where to send them to school for that crucial 11-18 year-old period. Our thinking was "If they go to school in Canada they will likely want to go to University in Canada. If they go to University in Canada, they will likely stay in Canada."

We did not want to stay in Canada, so we decided to relocate the family back to the UK in time for our eldest to go to High School and our youngest into year 4 or 5 in primary school. Best decision ever. We love the UK, they love their lives here (now both at University and thriving).

We didn't take Canadian citizenship and have little intention of ever returning. Don't live your life in regret, you'll only... err... regret it, and come to resent it.
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Old Oct 26th 2021, 4:17 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post

We did not want to stay in Canada, so we decided to relocate the family back to the UK in time for our eldest to go to High School and our youngest into year 4 or 5 in primary school. Best decision ever. We love the UK, they love their lives here (now both at University and thriving).
Having engaged with many Canadians over the years University in Canada does seem a some what dull experience compared to the culture shock and excitement of University in the the UK. Several Canadian's who spent some time in the UK during their degrees re-iterate my comments. University in the UK brings out a much more rounded grown up person.

Although going to University might not be worth doing these days- there are lots of ways to get from A to B with out the debt.
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Old Oct 26th 2021, 6:44 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
Having engaged with many Canadians over the years University in Canada does seem a some what dull experience compared to the culture shock and excitement of University in the the UK. Several Canadian's who spent some time in the UK during their degrees re-iterate my comments. University in the UK brings out a much more rounded grown up person.

Although going to University might not be worth doing these days- there are lots of ways to get from A to B with out the debt.
Uni is a joke, my Son learned more on YouTube, Wikipedia, and educational websites than he did at University. There's so much valuable information on the internet for free, rising tuition costs make absolutely no sense. Should just be able to take a test to get a degree now.
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Old Oct 26th 2021, 8:09 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by Tirytory View Post
Hi all,

It’s been a while. I needed to bounce my thoughts off people and who better than a lot of expats. We have been here nearly 8 years, I have a son in Grade 11, one in grade 6 and one in grade 1. We applied for Citizenship in April this year.

As some of you are aware, I’ve been homesick for a lot of my time here, not consistently, mostly coming
in waves but seems to be getting more frequent. COVID has not helped this at all. Knowing that for the most part you can’t get home has felt horrible.

I’m feel like it might be time to move home, but I’m scared of taking them from what appears to be a lovely life here to back home and they all hate it.

I’ve spend a lot of my time here being dissatisfied with my work like here, and it was further amplified recently when I had a temp role working for public health as part of the immunization team. It was amazing, it reminded me of how it used to feel working as someone with skills and doing something really useful. I felt really happy all of a sudden and I realized that I hadn’t felt like that in such a long time. I felt really part of the team, really enjoyed the nurses I worked with, although was still conscious of the discrepancy of our different titles.

Now it’s over, and I’m back to the same old job which I dislike (family medicine), and the only option to regain my old title is either going back to school for four years to get the SAME qualification I held in the UK, or and 18month course in York university, which will take me 4 years while I have to reapply to be assessed all over again. I can’t quite stomach it. The alternative is a Return to Practice course in the UK where we used to live of a part time 21 weeks, paid for course, which part of the course will go towards my degree.

I live in a small town, and I thought I had solid friendships but have found one of the close ones really fraught recently. I miss my old faithful friendships, and they still remain, I just miss being able to interact with them in person. We still haven’t made a Will here either, because in part we can’t agree on what would happen to the kids if we died, I want to send them home because there is no one here I would want to leave them to, and Steve thinks that would be horrible for them, but agrees that there isn’t anywhere that would be satisfactory for them to go to. Alternatively, in the UK I can think of at least three friend families where I would leave them.

I’ve thought about leaving many times, and I’ve talked myself out of it because it’s better for everyone else, and it hasn’t been horrible here at all. However, I think this may be the last time we can make this decision for many years. My husband can go home to work at this point with relative ease ie he needs to be under 10 years away from UK practice, but I can’t find any information on what happens after that point, and then we would be into my daughter starting high school which would tie us here for another how ever many years. It feels like now or never.

We would probably leave my husband and my son here to finish high school, my husband to see out his contract at work and find a replacement, and the best solution I can see is to take my daughter home to start comprehensive school with everyone else next September, and take my youngest with me. I could start my nursing course a year November, or we all move at the same time in two years time but would be a little bit harder for my daughter to get into the school we would want.

If you have managed to sift through this, well done, if you are able to offer me any great pieces of advice from my jumbled thoughts they would be appreciated.
Hi, having read your thread I would like to say that if it were me I would return to the UK, children adapt much quicker than we appreciate and in my opinion having a happier mum/wife etc makes a huge difference, your not being selfish especially given the time you have tried to make Canada work, please try and not be so hard on yourself. Sometimes for some migration can be really hard work and not always smooth running, it’s not really working for you and life really is too short to feel like you have for as long as you have. I could let you know of friends and family having migrated who have let’s say “fallen on their sword” to make others in their familiars happy and a lot are now ruing the day they did not put themselves first sometimes. Good luck with your decision and give yourself a pat on the back as migrating in the first place to Canada was a brave decision.
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Old Oct 26th 2021, 8:33 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
Uni is a joke, my Son learned more on YouTube, Wikipedia, and educational websites than he did at University. There's so much valuable information on the internet for free, rising tuition costs make absolutely no sense. Should just be able to take a test to get a degree now.
Even colleges for vocational training programs add in a bunch of padding classes that are irrelevant to the training, just a way to increase the time and money to the school as unless just graduated high school, your going to almost always need to do some form of upgrading first so more money to the school, more student loan debt so more money for the government in interest etc etc.

And why does a job in Canada need X amount of schooling for a certificate, where in the US, and UK and some other countries, its on the job training, Canada is just too obsessed with certificates and degrees, but Canada may have some of the most educated baristas in the world.....

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Old Oct 26th 2021, 11:49 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
Uni is a joke, my Son learned more on YouTube, Wikipedia, and educational websites than he did at University. There's so much valuable information on the internet for free, rising tuition costs make absolutely no sense. Should just be able to take a test to get a degree now.
I agree.

It's very much an industry now.

There are lots of alternative methods to learn and gain acceptable qualifications or skills for many many professions.

The debt is crippling.
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Old Oct 27th 2021, 11:29 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Final decision

Hi Tirytory...

I know exactly how you feel! We have lived all over the place, including Calgary for eight years. Now living in the Netherlands and it is fine as I can (covid lockdown etc permitting) get back 'home' (London, even though I haven't lived there sinch 1997) regularly.

I did just want to mention that you might want to check your eligibility for 'home fees' at university in the UK - if your son is planning to go. I got a brexit related shock when I was looking for my oldest boy as fees seem to be based on residence - I think three out of the four years before you go. His eligibility was based on him living in Europe rather than UK and brexit was going to mess that up. In fact he didn't want to go to the UK and is at a Dutch uni instead. It might be no issue at all for you but do check...

I enjoyed my time in Canada and it was easy for us as my husband and kids were all canadian citizens before we went. I got citizenship before we left and I think it is a good idea that you do that. My oldest son was very happy to leave - he was three when we moved to Calgary and 12 when we moved from Calgary to Kenya. My youngest was eight when we left Calgary and leaving broke his heart. He is now almost 16 and does talk about maybe going to uni there. We do visit as we still have family and friends to see. I am always happy to go and also always happy to leave! Frankly, I would say that life is short and you can't always live for everyone else. Just don't expect things to be the same and people to be interested....They are thrilled to see you for a month or so and then life goes on....

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Last edited by leepee; Oct 27th 2021 at 11:32 am. Reason: dates
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Old Feb 2nd 2022, 5:03 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Final decision

*Update*

So a lot has happened and not much at the same time. I find that my friends in either country have biased opinions and it’s difficult to have a real conversation about it, so I guess it’s you guys!

I went home for a visit at the end of November. It was colder than I expected coming from Ontario, I think I thought it would feel warmer than it did😆. I did love being home though and was pretty sad to leave.

I’m also casually working for the health unit again, which I mostly enjoy and pays well for an RPN. I have also had my license reinstated in the UK and I can officially apply for any work there, and can complete my BSCN part time at the local university (if we moved home).

My husband and I made the decision to go home at the beginning of January. We told the kids; the two younger ones were upset initially but came round quickly. I found some pen friends for my 11 year old who will be at the same school as her in September- that has helped a lot. I do have some lingering doubts that Muskoka is a better place for them to grow up. They play outdoors a lot here; friends close by and big backyards to play in.

Our house has increased in value substantially so we’ll be able to be mortgage free if we downsize a little. An equivalent house to ours is about £750k in value in the UK- our house hasn’t gone up THAT much. I visited houses while I was over; there will be compromises with all of them. I guess we’re fortunate to live in a house with no compromises here. Although, we would never be afford this house if we were moving over now.

The negatives.

The process for my husband to become registered as a doctor again in the UK is onerous and lengthy. Local GP’s have told him that working for the NHS is the worst it’s ever been; and pay hasn’t risen since we left 8 years ago.

The other negative is that my eldest seems to be spiralling and on self destruct at the moment. The latest lockdown seemed to make things much worse. He still swims, and is not into drugs or drinking, but his grades have plummeted and he doesn’t seem to care about anything other than his phone. He hates school and is so apathetic. He thinks it will be different in the UK. I know he wants to go home, but I don’t know whether he will actually come away with any qualification if he returns. I visited a local college when I was there and I think the best course is to complete a year of GCSE’s there, essentially going back a year, and doing the exams in a year, and then moving on to sixth form or an apprenticeship. But he could get nothing at all, if he carry’s on like he is this year, then he will get nothing.

It’s a stupid idea moving a teenager at this point, isn’t it?


Last edited by Tirytory; Feb 2nd 2022 at 5:07 pm.
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Old Feb 2nd 2022, 5:37 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by Tirytory View Post
*Update*

So a lot has happened and not much at the same time. I find that my friends in either country have biased opinions and it’s difficult to have a real conversation about it, so I guess it’s you guys!

I went home for a visit at the end of November. It was colder than I expected coming from Ontario, I think I thought it would feel warmer than it did😆. I did love being home though and was pretty sad to leave.

I’m also casually working for the health unit again, which I mostly enjoy and pays well for an RPN. I have also had my license reinstated in the UK and I can officially apply for any work there, and can complete my BSCN part time at the local university (if we moved home).

My husband and I made the decision to go home at the beginning of January. We told the kids; the two younger ones were upset initially but came round quickly. I found some pen friends for my 11 year old who will be at the same school as her in September- that has helped a lot. I do have some lingering doubts that Muskoka is a better place for them to grow up. They play outdoors a lot here; friends close by and big backyards to play in.

Our house has increased in value substantially so we’ll be able to be mortgage free if we downsize a little. An equivalent house to ours is about £750k in value in the UK- our house hasn’t gone up THAT much. I visited houses while I was over; there will be compromises with all of them. I guess we’re fortunate to live in a house with no compromises here. Although, we would never be afford this house if we were moving over now.

The negatives.

The process for my husband to become registered as a doctor again in the UK is onerous and lengthy. Local GP’s have told him that working for the NHS is the worst it’s ever been; and pay hasn’t risen since we left 8 years ago.

The other negative is that my eldest seems to be spiralling and on self destruct at the moment. The latest lockdown seemed to make things much worse. He still swims, and is not into drugs or drinking, but his grades have plummeted and he doesn’t seem to care about anything other than his phone. He hates school and is so apathetic. He thinks it will be different in the UK. I know he wants to go home, but I don’t know whether he will actually come away with any qualification if he returns. I visited a local college when I was there and I think the best course is to complete a year of GCSE’s there, essentially going back a year, and doing the exams in a year, and then moving on to sixth form or an apprenticeship. But he could get nothing at all, if he carry’s on like he is this year, then he will get nothing.

It’s a stupid idea moving a teenager at this point, isn’t it?
If your son is not doing well now and he wishes to go, it seems to me that he cannot be a worse position than he is now, after moving back, and he may be in a much better position. From my perspective, that appears to be a no brainer.

You/your husband are going to have to determine whether, professionally, the move will be a good thing.

I wish you all the best with whatever you decide.
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Old Feb 2nd 2022, 5:56 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Final decision

I went home for Christmas and New Year and extended my stay 3 weeks when they locked down in Ontario.

I loved every second of it and am contemplating heading back myself. It is just a more interesting place and I see it now.

Even though it is Boris watching the UK government talk about Covid and dealing with it was night and day compared to anything Trudeau and Ford have served up. I don't see the UK locking down again so that might be better for your son.

You want to head back and he does so give it a shot. I am amazed that the process is lengthy for your husband- especially as he came through the system in the UK originally- that looks to me like the only point of frustration. People whine about the NHS like they do the weather in my opinion. It's still better than Ontario Health.

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Old Feb 2nd 2022, 8:21 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
I went home for Christmas and New Year and extended my stay 3 weeks when they locked down in Ontario.

I loved every second of it and am contemplating heading back myself. It is just a more interesting place and I see it now.

Even though it is Boris watching the UK government talk about Covid and dealing with it was night and day compared to anything Trudeau and Ford have served up. I don't see the UK locking down again so that might be better for your son.

You want to head back and he does so give it a shot. I am amazed that the process is lengthy for your husband- especially as he came through the system in the UK originally- that looks to me like the only point of frustration. People whine about the NHS like they do the weather in my opinion. It's still better than Ontario Health.
What sort of things did you prefer when you were here?
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Old Feb 2nd 2022, 8:42 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
I went home for Christmas and New Year and extended my stay 3 weeks when they locked down in Ontario.

I loved every second of it and am contemplating heading back myself. It is just a more interesting place and I see it now.

Even though it is Boris watching the UK government talk about Covid and dealing with it was night and day compared to anything Trudeau and Ford have served up. I don't see the UK locking down again so that might be better for your son.

You want to head back and he does so give it a shot. I am amazed that the process is lengthy for your husband- especially as he came through the system in the UK originally- that looks to me like the only point of frustration. People whine about the NHS like they do the weather in my opinion. It's still better than Ontario Health.
I agree on this, I think the UK have handled things better, especially now at this point, Omicron is and always was a damp squib over hyped and not worth all these hard core restrictions here in Canada. I also agree that the NHS is much better too, the Brits contantly complain about it, but they have never seen anything else to compare it to. That said Onatrio health is way better than anything the states can offer... I can't believe Americans still live that way,

I think if it wasn't for affordable toys here (that allow me to enjoy the outdoors the way I do), there is a strong argument for the UK.... that said I'd still miss the defined seasons we have here in Ontario. I like contrast and weather... again back to the outdoors!
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Old Feb 3rd 2022, 1:13 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Final decision

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
If your son is not doing well now and he wishes to go, it seems to me that he cannot be a worse position than he is now, after moving back, and he may be in a much better position. From my perspective, that appears to be a no brainer.

You/your husband are going to have to determine whether, professionally, the move will be a good thing.

I wish you all the best with whatever you decide.
Thank you

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
I went home for Christmas and New Year and extended my stay 3 weeks when they locked down in Ontario.

I loved every second of it and am contemplating heading back myself. It is just a more interesting place and I see it now.

Even though it is Boris watching the UK government talk about Covid and dealing with it was night and day compared to anything Trudeau and Ford have served up. I don't see the UK locking down again so that might be better for your son.

You want to head back and he does so give it a shot. I am amazed that the process is lengthy for your husband- especially as he came through the system in the UK originally- that looks to me like the only point of frustration. People whine about the NHS like they do the weather in my opinion. It's still better than Ontario Health.
What was it that you loved more this time? I’ve generally been in agreement with what Ford has done, but schools closing was just a bridge too far for me this time. For his entire high school experience, he has either had Math entirely online, or mostly online, and has had the curriculum squeezed into intense month. It’s ridiculous.
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