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Feeling very low tonight

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Old Nov 4th 2006 | 6:25 am
  #1  
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Default Feeling very low tonight

I knew things were going way too well:

As many of you are aware I am a UK solicitor intending to requalify in Canada. To do this one has to have one's (apologies for the grammar, sounding very royal ) credentials by NCA who look at academic credentials and experience, then they tell you (want to be a commoner again) how many exams you need to take you equalise your qualifications with a Canadian law graduate so you can then take your Bar exam and complete Articles to requalify - so far so good no real complaints there.

The hurdles you have to jump to just to put your application in is ridiculous but has just become virtually impossible. To "prove" your work experience they have just changed the rules. It used to be sufficient to obtain references from ex-employers on headed note-paper with the obligatory business card - addressed to you for enclosure with your application. It has now changed to requiring your former employer (in my case some of them employed me 10 years ago) to swear an affidavit to include the information previously contained in the "reference letter". If that wasn't difficult enough, this has to be sent directly to NCA - rather than sent in as part of your application.

Some of the reference letters I obtained took me 8 months to obtain. What chance have I got of getting someone who will obtain no benefit for doing so to swear a document and send it to some mindless bureaucrat in Ottowa ?

Nil is the answer to that - if that is the case then no credit will be given for the period in question. Whilst not wanting to sound racist - if they have experienced difficulty in assessing those from certain countries in the past, why don't they just treat each application on its own merits rather than expecting everyone to perform the ridiculous just to avoid one or two dodgy applications.

For all foreign lawyers wanting to requalify in the UK one fairly simple exam is all that is required. Yes I know I must comply with Canadian rules if I want to play the Canadian game but I feel that the last year or so that I have spent trying to document my application has become a complete waste of time

I'm sure this rant is just the Saturday night talking but I am feeling a little p****d off
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 6:41 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Sorry to hear you're feeling low, DTLE.

I don't know if you think there is merit in falling back on the second string in your bow, namely, carpentry.

You're about 20 years younger than I am. If the consequences of climate change and peak oil arrive soon enough, and especially if the crash is hard enough, you might live to celebrate the day you opted for carpentry rather than the law.

But who knows? I don't have a monopoly on crystal balls.

I bet I've really cheered you up now.
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 6:46 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Can understand why you are depressed! Will these new rules apply to you as you are so far down the application process? I was wondering along the same as Judy - is there anything else you can do instead? I know it'd be a huge change and not sure how feasible it is for you, but is it worth considering a career change? So many people seem to have to change their careers when then move to Canada.

How is sunny Derbyshire btw - ah the green hills are calling.
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 6:49 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Sorry to hear you're feeling low, DTLE.

I don't know if you think there is merit in falling back on the second string in your bow, namely, carpentry.

You're about 20 years younger than I am. If the consequences of climate change and peak oil arrive soon enough, and especially if the crash is hard enough, you might live to celebrate the day you opted for carpentry rather than the law.

But who knows? I don't have a monopoly on crystal balls.

I bet I've really cheered you up now.
Carpentry is looking better by the day. If I am really honest, I hate legal practice in the UK so doubted very much that I would be doing it in Calgary. The assessment process takes approx 4 months (you only have 2 years to pass all the exams from the date of the assessment which is why I didn't want to submit it until I was over there) and I was intending to obtain paralegal/legal assistant work whilst awaiting the results to enable me to check out the practice position

Guess I'll have to make sure I can afford our mortgage on a burger flipper's wage

Rather than but the new massive plasma TV on arrival - I'll be re-tooling myself

More required I think
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 6:52 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Originally Posted by h_henry
Can understand why you are depressed! Will these new rules apply to you as you are so far down the application process? I was wondering along the same as Judy - is there anything else you can do instead? I know it'd be a huge change and not sure how feasible it is for you, but is it worth considering a career change? So many people seem to have to change their careers when then move to Canada.

How is sunny Derbyshire btw - ah the green hills are calling.
It doesn't affect the CHC position -- just my potential career position after landing.

A change is as good as rest so not limiting the options - anyone need a carpenter who hasn't touched his tools for 15 years - anyone know of any good DIY programs where an ex-chippy can find out what the new construction techiques are
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 6:55 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Sorry to hear about your run around from the NCA. I am a Canadian who did his LLB at Cardiff in the late 80's and I can certainly empathsize with your plight. I got called to the Alberta Bar in 1990 and it was a pain back then but I gather now it is much more difficult to get accredited. And in your case, being a qualified solicitor it is even more ridiculous.
At the time, one had the impression that they viewed a British LLB as being far inferior to a Canadian one which is a load of bollucks. In any event, the various Law Societies and the NCA have now made it very difficult for foreign trained lawyers to qualify due in large part to a paranoic fear of over-saturating the market..the age old closed shop mentality.The ironic thing is that with Alberta's boom there is plenty of spots open for good lawyers.
Anyway, I'm not sure I am making you feel any better but is it possible to get sponsored by a Canadian law firm to ease the process?
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 7:04 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Originally Posted by Hart50
Sorry to hear about your run around from the NCA. I am a Canadian who did his LLB at Cardiff in the late 80's and I can certainly empathsize with your plight. I got called to the Alberta Bar in 1990 and it was a pain back then but I gather now it is much more difficult to get accredited. And in your case, being a qualified solicitor it is even more ridiculous.
At the time, one had the impression that they viewed a British LLB as being far inferior to a Canadian one which is a load of bollucks. In any event, the various Law Societies and the NCA have now made it very difficult for foreign trained lawyers to qualify due in large part to a paranoic fear of over-saturating the market..the age old closed shop mentality.The ironic thing is that with Alberta's boom there is plenty of spots open for good lawyers.
Anyway, I'm not sure I am making you feel any better but is it possible to get sponsored by a Canadian law firm to ease the process?
Hi there

The job isn't really the issue (been offered lots of those) it's the number of exams that NCA is going to force me to take. I've set myself a maximum limit of 6- we'll have to see - I always knew it was going to be an uphill struggle - it's now just become more vertical - just feeling sorry for myself really - others have faced much harder struggles so I have nothing to complain about really.

What area of law do you practice if you don't mind me asking ?
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 7:11 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Originally Posted by Dying to leave England
Hi there

The job isn't really the issue (been offered lots of those) it's the number of exams that NCA is going to force me to take. I've set myself a maximum limit of 6- we'll have to see - I always knew it was going to be an uphill struggle - it's now just become more vertical - just feeling sorry for myself really - others have faced much harder struggles so I have nothing to complain about really.

What area of law do you practice if you don't mind me asking ?
I practice mostly commercial law in-house with an Alberta utility.
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 7:39 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Have a look through the SAIT website - you might get lots of inspiration looking through the different courses available perhaps? I have my eye on the CAD courses if I can't find a job when I get there.

www.sait.ca
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 7:46 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Originally Posted by Dying to leave England
Yes I know I must comply with Canadian rules if I want to play the Canadian game but I feel that the last year or so that I have spent trying to document my application has become a complete waste of time

I'm sure this rant is just the Saturday night talking but I am feeling a little p****d off
Sorry to hear that after doing all your research and jumping the CHC hoops the professional goalposts have been moved for you.

If you do not actually like your legal job maybe there'll be a silver lining in a few days when you've got through your frustration.
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 8:40 am
  #11  
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Carpentry is not too bad to get some Canadian qualifications.
You need 7500 work hours under your belt, which you can to a Stat dec yourself to gain.
Then you sit challenge exams, BC or werever Building code related. I know this is good for BC Alberta
This link explains all.

Carpentry
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 11:42 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Originally Posted by Dying to leave England
I knew things were going way too well:

As many of you are aware I am a UK solicitor intending to requalify in Canada. To do this one has to have one's (apologies for the grammar, sounding very royal ) credentials by NCA who look at academic credentials and experience, then they tell you (want to be a commoner again) how many exams you need to take you equalise your qualifications with a Canadian law graduate so you can then take your Bar exam and complete Articles to requalify - so far so good no real complaints there.

The hurdles you have to jump to just to put your application in is ridiculous but has just become virtually impossible. To "prove" your work experience they have just changed the rules. It used to be sufficient to obtain references from ex-employers on headed note-paper with the obligatory business card - addressed to you for enclosure with your application. It has now changed to requiring your former employer (in my case some of them employed me 10 years ago) to swear an affidavit to include the information previously contained in the "reference letter". If that wasn't difficult enough, this has to be sent directly to NCA - rather than sent in as part of your application.

Some of the reference letters I obtained took me 8 months to obtain. What chance have I got of getting someone who will obtain no benefit for doing so to swear a document and send it to some mindless bureaucrat in Ottowa ?

Nil is the answer to that - if that is the case then no credit will be given for the period in question. Whilst not wanting to sound racist - if they have experienced difficulty in assessing those from certain countries in the past, why don't they just treat each application on its own merits rather than expecting everyone to perform the ridiculous just to avoid one or two dodgy applications.

For all foreign lawyers wanting to requalify in the UK one fairly simple exam is all that is required. Yes I know I must comply with Canadian rules if I want to play the Canadian game but I feel that the last year or so that I have spent trying to document my application has become a complete waste of time

I'm sure this rant is just the Saturday night talking but I am feeling a little p****d off

My empathy to you , it is just the OLD BOYS network making it hard
for foreign trained professionals to enter into their club.
If you don't mind me suggesting that you offer to pay for the fees
for the sworn affidavits and keep a close follow up to see that they
are sent to Ottawa. Hopefully that will speed things up a wee bit.
My best wishes to you, keep strong and things will work out in the end.
Yoong
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 12:30 pm
  #13  
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

I read your post... perhaps I am a complete idiot but couldnt you work as a consultant in canada advising people on UK law and immigration issues?
 
Old Nov 4th 2006 | 6:44 pm
  #14  
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Many thanks for all the replies - plenty of food for thought there

Feeling better now - had a night to sleep on things
 
Old Nov 5th 2006 | 3:56 am
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Default Re: Feeling very low tonight

Originally Posted by Dying to leave England
Many thanks for all the replies - plenty of food for thought there

Feeling better now - had a night to sleep on things
Good to hear you are feeling better! I had a further thought. If qualifying to be a lawyer becomes too much there is plenty of opportunity for people such as yourself with a "Contracts" background to work in industry in Calgary. I know a number of people in Calgary with legal backgrounds who for a variety of reasons never qualified who work in the oil patch or other industries as contract analysts. In fact, there is a gal in my office who is a qualified lawyer from New Zealand who works in my companies' Documentation Dept. If you have any further questions concerning the legal scene in Calgary please drop me a line.
 


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