Hello

A quick question for engineers in Ontario, I should be coming over to Toronto in the next 18 months and I am looking into what I can do over here before I come out. I know that you have to be registered to practice as an engineer and have located the 2 regulating bodies The PEO and OACETT, both allow you to start the registration process before you land but I dont know which one to start joining or possibly both. My background is that I am a time served electrical fitter in the power industry, since then I have obtained an ONC and HNC in electrical engineering and a BEng (Hons) degree in engineering. I am currently an electrical building services design engineer for the county council designing public buildings within the architects department.

If it helps me in the UK I am a member of the IET (institute of engineering and technology) and before they became one I was a member of the IIE (institute of incorporated engineers) and the IEE (institute of electrical engineers). Sometimes there is a bit of international collaboration between the differing institutions.

Any other advice on how to fit in quickly would also be appreciated, eg retraining opportunities and where to seek employment.

Cheers

Pete

Hi Pete,

I'm afraid i can't offer any advice but just to say that i'm in a somewhat similar situation and will be keeping an eye on this thread! I have a MEng from the UK and i'm curious about the process of becoming registered and more importantly gaining the right to work as a engineer in Ontario.

So, all the engineers out there - please reply!

~T.

Ive been an engineer in Ontario (Quality, Production/ Process, Materials, a bit of Test and Design, jack of all trades at a small high tech manufacturing operation)

Still not bothered with PEng

Its only really a factor if you have to sign off on designs or want to work in Civil I suspect. There are some things legally that require PEng Supervision, but for my day to day work, its not a factor. In many fields the need for PEng is greatly overstated. Most of the design engineers at our Toronto head office are PEng, but for me its not important, so I keep putting it off.

If you are a CEng in the UK and that's important to your job, then PEng is probably important here, otherwise its just a social club. I suspect its relevance depends a lot on your field of endeavour and your job function.

Just a few pointers. You may want to check that your degree in the UK is accredited by the appropriate institution. For example, to be recognized by PEO, a UK Civil Engineering Degree must be recognised by the UK Engineering council. They have a website which lists courses which are accredited. If your B.Eng doesn't fall into this category, then a lengthy and costly "upgrading" process is likely.

Also, when qualifying for P.Eng, you are required to do progress reports, of which one year must be Canadian experience. If possible before you leave, make sure you write the reports and get them signed by a UK C.Eng, otherwise it can be a pain to try and track down someone to sign reports for you..and add an extra 3 years to your application. (4 years post grad-experience required, experience reports every six months, under supervision of P.Eng.).

Also, if possible i would go for PEO (P.Eng) first. The other organisation seems to be for engineering technologists.

As for becoming P.Eng., the process is relativiely simple. Assuming no qualification upgrading is required, then progress reports, an ethics exam, and an exam on the building/relevant codes.

i just read this post thinking, when did i post this???!!! i am also an electrical building services engineer, currently working for the council, with an hnc, beng hons and MIET! i am also looking to settle in ontario, in about 18 months although hopefully ottawa !!!

if you wouldnt mind keeping in touch, i'm almost certain we could assist each other as i have been doing research also. PEO would appear to the registrative body we would be applying to, and assuming your BEng is accredited by the ECUK it should be sufficient for them also. with regards to getting PEng, you have to have 1 years of north american experience, however if PEO deem you suitable and you pass their exams, you can be granted a provisional licence as a PEng until you get your years experience.

with regards to visa issues and job hunting, what are your plans?! having checked the occupations under pressure and pnp lists for various provinces it would appear mechanical engineer are only in demand. i have done a lot of mechanical design in the past until i started in my new post this year, so was thinking about trying to get a job under that title instead

Agreed, I have BEng from the UK never bothered with PEng not worth the hassle and year (or more from what I learnt) of classes when you dont really need it unless as IanK says you have to sign of on work. Working for a company as a new immigrant I think this is highly unlikely!

Defo not worth worrying about until you have been here for some time, as Ian K says again its a social club from what I have experienced in my 4 years here.

If you avoid getting the P.Eng stamp then you can avoid being in the infamous 'blue pages' in the middle of the PEO magazine that describes the hearings that PEO have of members who use their stamps etc. when they didn't have the knowledge etc. On the other side, w/o the P.Eng stamp you have to watch it that you don't advertise yourself as an 'engineer' on business cards, letters, drawings etc.

In Ontario, there are many P.Eng's out there who have never stamped a design etc.

The annual fees for P.Eng membership is very low compared to professional planners, architects, landscape architects etc.

Every business card I've had here in ten plus years says "engineer" on it somewhere.

You would be in hot water for selling yor services as an engineer without it, but there are in reality very few independent consulting engineers out there outside of civil and perhaps a few mechanical engineers.

Ironically, many of the things a PEng is entilted to do legally(outside of design sign off), such as health and safety start up reviews, we subcontract to outside consultants. None of the PEng empoyees will touch it for fear of personal liability...they let people with large insurance policies take care of that side of things.

Well this isn't Ontario specific but I have had a really hard time getting anybody to hire me in an engineering field without this.

The difference between a 'drafter' and a 'design engineer' is around $35,000 a year.

So I personally would suggest that you should be thinking of registering yourself if you are having a rough time trying to get a job.

I believe that most of the provincial bodies make it quite easy if you have 10 years experiance in another country but again you would have to check with the provincial based institutions themselves.

In Manitoba it is APEGM.

If you do not either have 10 years experiance and/or a degree before you move take time beforehand to talk to companies here in canada and just ask how your resume would likely to be recieved.

Again you are talking about Canada which will tell you how easy it is to move and get jobs here but it iis certainly not that easy. I.E. why there are more engineers driving taxis than you would care to know about. Just take the time and research before you take the plunge.

As I said, its depends to a large extent what field you are in. In some disciplines its essential, in others, not so much.

Thanks for all the info guys, luckily this is my first professional job off the tools so when you hear about people getting a job at a lower grade than they are used to in the UK then I dont have a problem as I will just be doing the job that I am doing now. My degree was good enough for CEng registration but as I started it in 2000 rather than 1999 then it was down graded to IEng which I have now got.

I am also looking at the Int Eng registration as that seems to be something that I can take to PEO, but as some of you seem to say it all depends on how high you want to go and what kind of job you are willing to accept.

Cheers

Pete

Just be aware that even though you could get an 'international engineer' status it does not mean that a Canadian employer will credit you the same. I think that with most if not all provinces you have to hold the provincial engineer status to be able to 'sign off work' therefore a lot of employers could see this as a barrier...Not all but ultimately some will.

Canada is a pain when it comes to qualified occupations...

I'm starting a job in Alberta shortly. I'm CENG in the UK and will be looking to get PENG in Alberta when I get there.

I found that being without PENG wasn't a problem in getting a job. I think they took the view that it would be straightforward enough for me to obtain. In the year or so it would take to get I would just not be able to formally sign any work off so would effectively work under the authority of a PENG.

I will have to get 1 year Canadian experience and sit the ethics examination. Apparently the ethics exam is a 100 question multiple choice and isn't seen as being a big obstacle normally.

I believe degrees recognised under the Washington accord (ie from 1989) are accepted as satisfying the academic aspect of PENG requirement ie if they were okay for CENG they should be okay for PENG). There seems to be a Sydney accord which covers the same for what would be IENG in the UK.

http://www.washingtonaccord.org/

Ah yes, they changed the rules to needing an MEng for direct qualification as a chartered engineer, or a BEng with a years additional study. Cash grab. If you have the time, maybe phone the PEO to see if you can upgrade in the UK, and whether they would recognize this.

If your going for Mech/electrical/Civil i'd definitly recommend getting the P.Eng. Although having said this, most job advertisements for design engineers usually state, "be a P.Eng, or eligible for registration....."

If you wish to be predominantly site based, i wouldnt worry about P.Eng at all.

Livermanl...which field do you work in? Manitoba is desperate for engineers, and with a suitable degree you shouldnt have any trouble finding work. Assuming your young, Manitoba seems to be experience "top heavy", with a distinct lack of young people. For example, i work in a multidisciplinary design office of 200 ppl, and the number of E.I.T.s is around 3 or 4.

Seems Manitoba Hyrdo and the gold rush of Alberta is cornering the "new engineer" market.