Jules Europe

So according to this article people with fears or paranoias are more likely to vote for right or far right parties. There is certainly plenty of historical evidence to back this up, especially in Europe over the 70 years or so.

dbd33

I don't think we need allow a Conservative poster to frame the topics for debate. I don't like governments, I think they have great power to do harm and very little power to do good. I liked the Chretien government because it didn't do much to me. It's defining moment was not doing something; not going to war in Iraq. I hated the Harris government (Harperish, provincial government in Ontario) because it worsened the quality of life of the public at large by dumping the mentally ill on streets. This didn't do much for the mentally ill either.

I fear the Harper tories because I think they would like to do things. I think they would like to:

- join in the next Iraqish war

- curtail civil liberties such as same-sex marriage and the absence of an abortion law

- dismantle the systems of socialised medicine and replace them with something less universal

- end official bilingualism

- decrease the tax burden on corporations, increase it on working people

- sacrifice the environment for the benefit of corporate profits

In short, I think that what people abroad see as Canadian Values, the reasons to choose Canada, are in fact Liberal Values. I don't think the features of Canada that make the country better than America are safe in Harper's hands.

dbd33

My personal reasons above. I don't suppose you'll answer this but, Chi_Nook, you seem surprised and perhaps offended that, having sung the praises of Mr. Harper in public, you've become the object of derision. Where and how do you live that you didn't expect this to be the case? Is there actually a social circle in which people in Canada can say the sorts of things you've posted without the rest of the crowd shrinking into a distant corner?

DaveLovesDee

Liberals = assumption. Assuming makes an ASS of U and ME

1) Immigration Policy
I'd like to see immigration applicants given a one-year temporary work permit to allow them to demonstrate their ability and willingness to seek and maintain employment and pay tax into the economy with the proviso that they cannot claim assistance if unemployed for any reason, and must give details of their employer to CIC. If the applicant has passed medical and vetting then they should be able to reapply for another one-year work permit. If they fail their medical or vetting then CIC would revoke the work permit.

I would also like to see mandatory requirement for all classes of immigration to reach a minimum standard of the official language of the Province of residence within 1 year of arrival and a higher standard within 2 years. This doesn't stop immigrants from celebrating their culture but allows them to integrate into Canadian culture much easier. Or do we need to start putting roadsigns in 20 different languages.

2) The Economy

Isn't doing that badly at present. Higher prices mean everyone pays higher taxes, thereby allowing the government to make more money without raisng taxes for one income group more than another.

3) The unsigned Constitutional issue (very important in Quebec).

What about the rest of Canada. Canada consists 10 Provinces and 3 Territories.

4) The Military

The only enemies likely to invade Canada are the U.S. and Russia, both of whom would like our oil, natural gas and water. We have neither the numbers or equipment to do little more than guerrilla warfare and observation posts.

Either Canada needs to reinforce the military with manpower and equipment, or restrict the number of overseas commitments it sends troops to.

5) Law and Order

Minimum 2yr sentence for carrying a knife. No bail and no deals, and doubled for each subsequent offence.
Minimum 5yrs for carrying a pistol except as a licensed firearms holder or dealer between place of purchase, residence, shooting range or other restricted location. No bail and no deals, and doubled for each subsequent offence.
Minimum 10yrs for shotgun or rifle, same restrictions as above.

These sentences in addition to any other sentence imposed for crimes involving these weapons.

6) Environmental[/QUOTE]

If the U.S. Republican Presidential and Vice Presidential nominees can't agree on environmental policy (Google it so you get an interview unbiased by my viewpoint), I couldn't possibly say for sure what the best policy is.

Novocastrian

Interesting article that. Speaking as one who routinely sports a spider on my face and positively relishes the sight of festering wounds, I feel vindicated and enlightened.

dbd33

Is this for family class and refugees? If not, how is it substantively different from the current arrangements?

This is problematic for people who are being sponsored into Canada by relatives who don't speak English or French. Would you seek to impose these rules on Canadians or just new immigrants?

Roadsigns are usually symbols, otherwise they contain only a few internationally known words such as "STOP". No need to change them.

Those are the current rules as regards handguns in Ontario.

It's currently legal to walk around with a shotgun or rifle, to carry it on a gun rack in an occupied vehicle and to leave it in a parked vehicle with a coat thrown over it. Do you propose to change this and, if so, how are you going to sell the idea to one of the world's most heavily armed populations, when even gun registration has proven impossible to implement?


One might suggest that US Presidential candidates are not the best advisors on enviromental policy. Still, in a week when the US has had to nationalize the banks, we may as well look to the US for guidance on the environment as on the economy.

Jules Europe

Regarding the second point I think what he means if he is referring to skilled/unskilled workers only, is that if new immigrants had to be able to speak the required level of English or French within their first couple of years in Canada then they could stay. They then in turn could sponsor to bring family members over.

Only problem is that certain people from the family class are just not going to be able to learn a new language especially if they are elderley parents etc Also people from the refugee class as well would have to free from this language rule.

dbd33

So the only people to whom this would apply are skilled workers. I suggest that skilled workers who do not speak English or French are likely being imported by firms where English or French is not the working language and so these people are the least of Canada's worries. Examples of firms where work is performed in other English or French include Portuguese tile contractors, Italian paving contractors, Brazilian nightclubs, Dutch dairy farms and Greek restaurants. I don't see the point of the suggested legislation.

iaink

The way the system is set up now, unless you have the language points, its unlikely that you will meet the skilled worker points threshold anyway, and if you do its because you have education and skills way beyond the norm. Either way, you should be employable.

Where language skill defecits come in is in the number of family class immigrants who follow along in the wake of a skilled immigrant. What are you going to do, insist that all family members meet the langage skills requirement and throw out good workers after a couple of years if they dont? That's a slippery slope and will no doubt discourage many good candidates from coming to canada, and will no doubt skew the source of potential immigrants back towards northern europe away from the far east. Maybe thats what people really want but dont want to say for fear of being branded as racist.

Ive always maintained that if you are smart enough to have the skills needed to find a skilled worker type job, then you are smart enough to learn a langauge if needs be. Language alone is not a reason to reject people, and its effectively covered by the citizenship requirements. If you want to stay and be part of Canada longterm , ultimatley citizenship is the way to go anyway. If you dont, then we will keep taking your taxes and denying you welfare.

Jules Europe

The point of the suggested legislation is quite straight-forward that if these people are not reducing yearly quotas from the FSW route then there is no problem. If on the other hand they are reducing these quotas, then I think its sad that somebody who speaks the required level of either English or French regardless of where they are from, is just left to fill up a queue and wait years for processing (even though bill C50 wants to address this)

One of the principal ways for a new immigrant to adapt happily to his new environment is to be able to communicate with those in his new environment. If that new environment just happens to be the home or a specific workplace then this is new immigrant will find him/herself in a very limited environment indeed.

The foreign contractors and workers that you speak of, would as suggested by old Captain Hooky above have to prove their language abilities after a year or two in Canada anyway if they wanted to stay, so that is quite straight-forward.

As for the Brazilian nightclub workers, well I know a couple of tasty ones near me and they speak good Spanish (so if they can do it I am sure others can)

dbd33

What I think you're missing is that there are many Canadians who live quite happily without speaking either official language. If they want to hire people who speak the language of their firm I see no problem with that. For example, at the offices of Khalistan Trucking, a big firm in Brampton, do you think speaking English would be a valuable skill?

I doubt many Brazilians speak Spanish. I believe there's some sort of prejudice/national rivalry against it.

iaink

I dont see why, lots of English people speak French, or German, and there is no shortage of national prejudice/ rivalry there. Why not bilingual Brazilians?

Jules Europe

Language is something that can be learnt before they come and even after if they are to be given time to learn that language. If each skilled applicant was limited to the family members that came (spouse, parents and children) this language deficit shouldn`t be so large. Anyway I imagine that the family category includes the above such people anyway.

As mentioned already for certain family members language skills are not important anyway, the only issue is that they never fully integrate. But that is their/or their families choice anyway. This shouldn`t overly be a concern for others anyway.

iaink

But skilled workers / existing PRs ARE limited in who they can sponsor.

Extremely limited. One relative, and only if you have no close relatives already here.

I dont understand your point

dbd33

I expect there are some, I just don't think it's common. I thought it interesting that Portugal recently changed the definition of Portguese to match the language spoken in Brazil. That's as if we accepted "protest" as a verb because some oiks in remote countries have adopted that usage.