Education summary
 

Hi All,

I'm trying to compare the Canadian education system with what is in the UK. I've found some old threads (when I finally guessed the correct terms to search for), and just want to summarise to see if I have things right.

Summary
It is a difficult comparison to make!

In the UK the government and media are obsessed at how many more kids passed exams this year as opposed to last, and it's all about study and the all important 'A' grade. You get highly stressed out kids where they see their GCSE/A level result as the difference between rags and riches.

In Canada the school system is more into moulding the individual, and creating a good 'all rounder' and therefore the focus isn't on push, push, push. As a result the student is more relaxed and more likely to more on into higher education, rather than want out at the earliest opportunity.

I know the last sentence of each of those paragraphs tries to draw a comparison, but do I have it about right?

Regards

Chris

Re: Education summary
 

I disgree. Consider the case of my second daughter. She took the Bac and did well at it but, because the subjects for the Bac were not the same as the mandatory ones, she had to take some basic subjects at night school. At first this was just physics but as the final exams drew near more school time was devoted to SAT cramming classes so history also got bumped out of regular hours. She said that her fellow students at night school were mainly kids who were doing wll in regular school but who wanted, or were driven to want, to get ahead. She is, perhaps, an all rounder, but ice hockey, figure skating, swimming, ballet, sailing and so on took place out of school hours. We used spreadsheets and wall charts to keep track of it all.

Note that while I wanted my children to go to university, I didn't have a more specific aim. This is unusual here. My colleagues generally have very specific objectives for their children and drive them hard towards those objectives; a sports scholarship, entry to a particular university, that sort of thing. Two of my daughters have been able to make decent money tutoring younger students, not ones who were failing, but ones who weren't quite winning.

Perhaps the most telling measure of the values of the school system is the graduation ceremony. At the ones I have attended (lots, as it's also the prize giving night for students who are not yet graduating) the graduates are announced in the order of scholarship money they will receive. "Josephine Blow has been awarded the XYZ scholarship, worth $n,000 and will attend Brandeis. Abgnetha Bloggs has been awarded a full lacrosse scholarship and will attend Brown". There's no room in the annoucements for "Mildred Smithers who did rather well for someone with one parent and will be taking a nursing degree locally".

Re: Education summary
 

I don't like the sound of that. Way to make the average students feel probably less than average. :(

Chris

Re: Education summary
 

Well, yes, but it's a competitive system. At schools where the Bac is offered students who are not taking it are very much in the "dunce's class".

Re: Education summary
 

My experience has been different from dbd33's, and is consistent with the summary of the Canadian educational system that you provided in your original post.

Re: Education summary
 

Thanks Judy,

I suppose experiences could differ between schools across the road from each other. I guess it's a matter of getting your kid into the right one.

Regards

Chris

Re: Education summary
 

Schools certainly differ. A friend of one of my daughters attended Riverdale, a large school in Toronto, where he was one of the three non-Asian students then enrolled. He makes the place sound intensely competitive, even compared to the French school.

Re: Education summary
 

I grew up under the Canadian school system (a mix of private and public, so not quite the norm). My experience of the UK system is limited to what my HB has told me about his school years (also a mix of private and public), but from what I can gather about it I would say your summary is fairly correct. It seems to me, and I could well be misinformed, that there is a much greater emphasis on rote memorization in preparation for the nation-wide exams in the UK. I found that in Canada students were encouraged more to think subjectively about ideas and develop viewpoints and arguments to support their observations. HB says this does not really happen until university in the UK. He also can’t get over the fact there is no standardized nation-wide test in Canada (or province-wide test in most provinces) to provide a standard to judge schools and students by. It seems which system you find preferable is a very personal choice, judging by the debates on this issue on the board.

Re: Education summary
 

They are trying to introduce this kind of system in BC but the delivery end of the thing (teachers and unions) are raging about it. Their protectionist fears are more about how it will be used than about actually having a system, from what I have seen and read.

Rich.

Re: Education summary
 

We have recently moved to BC, a small town on Vancouver island. I had an open mind about the school system. However I would suggest that anyone who has a 16 /17 year old to think hard about bringing them until after 18. My daughter is far more mature than any of the students the same age. She is far more worldly wise than anyone we have yet to meet. Having worked in Uk out of school, in a good job weekends and holidays. It is quite shocking to come here and find that no one is expected to do anything until they are 18, and even then they compete against pensioners for jobs. She has practically nothing in common with anyone. The level of spelling and handwriting we have seen from adults alone when completing forms etc. at places we have been has also surprised us. She went to the school unable to do any studies and get credits because it was the "wrong time of year", but after I begged,was offered to sit in on classes where possible until February, so she could start to meet people and get a feeel for what they did. English,- she had studied what they were studyng two years ago, and the English teacher could not even spell it appeared. Biology, she was immediately put in year 12 class as year 11 was seen as too easy. Maths was also behind the work she did for GCSE.

The driving theory test is "difficult and has a 50% pass rate on first attempt" according to an instructor. She read the book a couple of times and did the online test several times and now has her provincal learners licence having never even turned on the ignition in a car and been in Canada 4 weeks!

We approached the college who make you jump through hoops to accept "under age applicants" Although they agree that completing school just to get a High School certificate is not really the best option for her with all here work experience, and school grades.

Before we left she was already taking the equivalent of a college diploma in Art, and I must admit I was really worried about coming at such a time in her life.
When you wait so long to get visas, you cant wait to come. There never is really a good time to come to suit all of you, especially teenagers. I have no regrets personally and see this as our home already. I have no desire to go back to UK. However for my daughters sake we are already talking about letting her go back to Uk to stay with family to let her complete her studies until she is 18. It is so much easy there than here at her age.
Also from a social point of view, teenagers in UK are a lot more mature than kids the same age here. We can't take here anywhere with us as she is under 19. In Uk where we lived she went to concerts, saw bands at pubs with us, and generally learnt how to be independant much quicker. Canada is a big place and I think city life is more favoured by teenagers, and probably has more to offer them education wise. I thought I had done enough research about the school system, but it is not until I got my daughters reaction I realised I may have made the worst decision for her I could at this time in her life. I just hope I can put it right with minimum disruption.
Bringing kids when they are young allows them to be moulded to the system. Bringing them so late in their life may backfire.
Teachers in Uk seem more interested in using the kids to make sure the school looks good as far as grades. They seem little interested in what the kids actually want to do in life.

In Canada they seem to encourage kids to take there time becoming an adult and entering the work force. This can be good, but also seems to produce non independant and lazier kids. If you dont go to university or college here then you are set for a very boring life. I am amazed at how even the most menial of jobs require some sort of certificate for. I am also amazed at how may companies and businesses want volunteers. Good jobs being given to retireess for no pay. This is why there seems less jobs available. Why pay someone when you can get another to work for free!

This is just my experience, and I am sure not the norm, but worth mentioning anyway.



QUOTE=chrisparr]Hi All,

I'm trying to compare the Canadian education system with what is in the UK. I've found some old threads (when I finally guessed the correct terms to search for), and just want to summarise to see if I have things right.

Summary
It is a difficult comparison to make!

In the UK the government and media are obsessed at how many more kids passed exams this year as opposed to last, and it's all about study and the all important 'A' grade. You get highly stressed out kids where they see their GCSE/A level result as the difference between rags and riches.

In Canada the school system is more into moulding the individual, and creating a good 'all rounder' and therefore the focus isn't on push, push, push. As a result the student is more relaxed and more likely to more on into higher education, rather than want out at the earliest opportunity.

I know the last sentence of each of those paragraphs tries to draw a comparison, but do I have it about right?

Regards

Chris[/QUOTE]

Re: Education summary
 

I am in Alberta and am very happy with the education system. My sons have to do the work, do the homework and if they do that then the teachers are happy and is like the image you have written about in the start of this thread. I do have a friend who has a son in the same school as my son. Been here since September and her first impression is the school was very strict. I could not believe she was talking about the same school. The problem she has in England her 14 year old son never did any homework and the teachers didn't mind. Within two weeks of being here she got called in to find out why her son had a 0 grade. Her son had not get his brain around having to do homework. Quite simple do the work, get a grade and teachers leave you alone. Plus remember there are no grade here, if you pass an exam with 80% then you get 80% not a grade B or C or A+**** depending on the goverment. I have already predicted that all students in Engand by 2008 will be so cleaver that all students at GCSE not only will all pass (cos they all pass now) but will all get 10 exams at grade A**. There will be no need to go to universitys because they will all get good degrees and so will have a 3 year gap year (like Prince Harry) and then get a job which needs a degree.

Re: Education summary
 

T'other half's son is in his final year at school in the big TO. Last night he was talking about a philosophy essay he had to write about Pirates and Vikings and the relationship between them, and if pirates were an evolution of Vikings or not.

Don't think I ever had to write anything like that when I was at school. Certainly forces kids to think for themselves, rather than learning of by heart which features in the South West of England were examples of glacial formation...

Re: Education summary
 

Gooding....you've got it - BC "education" ( I use the term loosely) in a nutshell. Can your daughter go home and complete her education before they deem her a non-resident back in Blighty? I am sending my daughter back home to the UK (and she will go back a year) to do two years of A levels. She wants to go to med school and was aiming for McGill, as UBC is too expensive and our only med school here in BC caters unhealthily to the rich kids. We may revisit that plan, depending on what I find in Ont when I get there. She is out of grade (one ahead) and is still bored to death, but is running BAC courses alongside her Grade 11 ones to at least keep the grey matter turning. She finds Chem 12 a challenge, but that's because she has never been taught Chemistry properly until now. I despair of the education standards in this province.

Re: Education summary
 

I am a teacher in London and have been teaching in the UK for 5 years. I grew up in the Canadian school systems and taught in them for 4 years before coming to the UK.

I disagree that the Canadian school systems are more competitive. I also disagree that the standards are lower. There is very clear evidence on many levels to support this statement as well:

1. If you want to know where countries stand in terms of literacy and numeracy on an international level, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is the world's watchdog. If you would like to see the nitty-gritties, go to www.oecd.org, click on "topic", then "education", followed by "statistics". You will find an informative chart that compares
countries in terms of student performance, adult education, etc. To save you the hassle, I can tell you that the UK does poorly in comparison to Canada (and many other countries, I might add). You also have to look at results from a few years back as the UK refused to hand in recent data last year and were heavily criticized for it both locally and abroad. It was the only country that failed to do so, likely because the state of education is not improving. The UK has many things to offer, but an excellent education system is not one!

2. In Britain, school funding is based on "value added" scores. In other words, how well your school is doing in terms of national test results. We teach to the test. Students that are 7,11, and 15 sit these exams and spend the entire year being "taught the test". Not well rounded education, I can tell you! The stress these children go under is enormous. I was never subjected to any of that in my day, nor did I have to teach in that environment. There is some standardised testing in Canada, however the results are not linked to school funding. They are used to simply monitor progress or flag weaknesses.

3. When I applied to teach in the UK, I had to provide my grades from both University and secondary school. What I found interesting is that the General Teaching Council took my grade 10 marks in maths, science and english to be the equivalent of GCSE completions (equivalent of grade 11 in the UK). What does this suggest?!

On a personal level, I have never seen such illiteracy in my life as I have teaching in a secondary school in the UK. It seems anyone with money sends their kids to private schools (like the politicians that make all the decisions). Can't say I blame them. It isn't like that in Canada.

I really enjoy living in London and adore the culture and history here. The proximity to Europe is fantastic as well. However, knowing what I know, I will go back to Canada to have kids.

Good luck!

Re: Education summary
 

Presuming that we complete immigration by September this year (AOR 7/10/04) my our sons will be 13 and 15 when we go to Alberta, Edmonton area. My eldest son will be due to start 5th year having completed his Standard grades (Scotland). We have been advised that as his birthday is in December we would be better putting him into a year behind to give him more time to adjust to the new system. Any advice out there?!
Stu & Fiona