Edmonton Advice
 

Hi new to the forum.

Another 'How long is a piece of string' question, not really asking for opinions, but would appreciate input from anyone who has experienced similar circumstances.

Will a Salary of $90,000.00 CAN (rising to $105,000.00 once P.Eng is gained after 12 months) support 2 Adults(missus is a housewife) and 3 kids under 12 in Edmonton?

I mean live comfortably and be able to afford nice days out with the kids, occasional meal out etc?? Not interested in a massive house or flash car.

We are heading out there to firm up my job offer mid April and I would really appreciate some input, thanks in case I need to squeeze for more $$$:eek:.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Yes, it's do-able. It's a decent enough salary - I don't know if it is a fair salary for your position, maybe other's will chip in.

I don't think you will feel loaded, but you should be able to live on more than baked beans.

How much of you monthly income will be eaten up with rental/mortgage payments? That will be the biggie. Groceries for a family of 5 will add up too.

You will need two cars - budget for running those, and insurance might sting for the first few years.

"Entertaining" three children with sports/kids activities will also need some careful budgeting too. Plan for further education if you can, if you are staying that long.

Send the Mrs out to work in due course. :p

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Thanks for the reply Ann,

Are you saying that the $90k would be enough to live off or are we going to struggle for a year until it gets bumped up to $105k?
The company are offering relocation cost of circa $10,000.00 and providing a car for the first few months, we were thinking of renting somewhere furnished, which would set us back $2,000.00 per month minimum. I thought the offer seemed too good to be true to be honest when I worked it back into £'s (but I realised that comparison is pretty irrelevant), I guess they just cannot find the people with sufficient qualifications.

How expensive can food be? are we talking Marks & Spencers prices :blink:.

I dont think the Mrs has any desire to work whilst doing the lions share of the childcare, and I dont blame her!

I am concerned about her feeling isolated if she is not working (its a big problem now in the UK for her, because so many younger mothers have to work) so we would be looking for an area with plenty to do where she and the youngest can mix, any suggestions?

Cheers

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

I think as a couple without kids you'd be laughing - however the expensive bit will be their after school activities.

I've directed others to this group but if you are on FB take a look for British Expats in Edmonton, they are all very helpful and will be able to advise you.

General consensus is that SW Edmonton is a good area to live - your wife will meet lots of other stay at home mums at school, and if your kids participate in activities then she'll have friends to get involved with.

It's likely she'll need a vehicle too, so really you need to work out what your costs of living will be and see how much you have left at the end of it to work out if YOU think you'll have a good lifestyle.

I'd say it's doable but you won't be rolling in it.

It seems as though you'd have around $60k take home - so thats $5k a month, $2k on rent leaves $3k

Food $800
Bills / utlilites (couple of cell phones water gas electric cable home phone) $500
Insurance (house and 2 cars) $500 (thats being low as car insurance can be super expensive)
Gas for cars depends on how much you drive - but a tank a week for both would set you at around $600 a month for 2 mid size veicles

That only leaves $600 a month for luxuries - which doesn't go far !!!


Look at these http://britishexpats.com/forum/searc...archid=2840839

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Mandy thank you for your very helpful post, I will join the FB page you mention, as part of my salary package there is also a 10% of salary profit share bonus, which I would never take account of for budgeting but would go some way toward a yearly one off luxury (holiday/new sofa).

I have considered leaving the kids on their Grandma's doorstep and doing a runner but Mrs lb77 not too keen on that idea.

In the UK I earn £42k (pretty much as much as I will ever earn in the UK) make ends meet, never seem to have anything left over for a Holiday/Christmas etc. and most importantly cannot afford a big enough house for us to live comfortably near York (where I work). So in my particular situation it sounds like I will be better off financially & be able to be nearer to home, so better for my family.

I am being told 12-16 weeks from written job offer to getting on the plane, (they have already brought someone in from the UK within this time frame) but reading some peoples storys on here it seems to take them much longer why?

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

This gives you a general idea of living costs for Edmonton, although it's not perfect it may help a bit.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...ayCurrency=CAD

For food, just look at some of the flyers to get an idea - http://edmonton.flyerland.ca/ or Canadian Savings

To get an idea as to whether the salary is a fair one, you could check here:

http://www.workingincanada.gc.ca/con...s-eng.do?cid=1

You could also look at some of the jobs that are available for Edmonton that are similar - the above link will give you what is - and you will be able to compare salaries and, just as importantly, benefits.

Does the $10.000 relocation payment include your transportation costs, container shipment and hotel expenses, deposits on rental property, utilities etc? For 5 people that isn't going to go far.

:)

Edit: Very few places are rented furnished in Canada, so factor in the cost of furnishings too.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

The other point is you don't have to enrol the children in expensive activities the minute you arrive, or at all. Most people here enrol their children into the activities they can afford.

When were arrived, we had no jobs to speak of and, when I finally obtained one, I was earning $55,000 initially. My requalification period was likely to take 2 years, with the prospects of a very large increase in income when I did and progressive increases during. We had 3 children of similar ages to yours. We cut our cloth accordingly.

I would say the overall costs of living are similar either side of the Atlantic and, it would appear, you will have a greater income this side than you currently do.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Is your plan to work in Edmonton "just for a while" as a bit of an adventure or do you plan to make a permanent emigration?

Are you keeping a UK property etc?

Every decision is easier if you view it as "not forever".

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

It seems that you might be coming over on a temporary work permit and that the company have once applied for an LMO and been succesful, so would be going down that route - with you applying for your permits at the border. Check with the company if that is indeed what they are doing.

If so you should look into applying for pr as soon as you are allowed, to get the stability you need for your family.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Why will they need two cars? Edmonton has an extensive transit system. Two cars would be necessary for rural living and commuting into Edmonton, but not if they choose to live in the City.

We're a family with 3 children and we survive just fine with just the one car (in Ottawa).

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Have you lived in Edmonton, with 3 kids under 12?

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

No. I live in a city that, in terms of area coverage is 4 times bigger than Edmonton. With 3 kids under 12. And we manage fine.

Why push the OP into getting a second car straight off the bat, without considering whether or not they'll actually need one?

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Edmonton made No. 8 place in the Money Sense's Best places to live in Canada 2012. Interesting to see the average resident has nearly 30% of their pay cheque left after paying basic expenses - and that taxes are amongst the lowest in the country.

#8 Edmonton (67.4 pts.)

http://www.moneysense.ca/2012/03/20/...-to-live-2012/

http://list.moneysense.ca/rankings/b...aspx?profile=8

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Not pushing just advising - my only knowledge tbh is of sis in law and she has 2 kids and one on the way - with hockey / gymnastic / soccer and whatever else her kids do - you'd be hard pressed to use the transit to a) get you there in time and b) to actually go past where you need them to go at the times you need it.

Think of the winters too - a 5 minute walk to school (if you are lucky enough to live that near one) in glorious sunshine is fantastic - not so much in minus 35 with 2 feet of snow on the ground.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

By some North American standards, Calgary has great public transport. Those used to European public standards would be appalled by it.

I would not want to live in Calgary with 3 children under 12 and have to rely upon public transport to ferry them about. Ottawa may be very different to Edmonton, but then so is London, England.

I don't believe anyone is pushing anything. But I believe that those that live in the vicinity with young children are better placed to provide advice than those that don't. As the poster above has said, I would not want to be waiting for a bus in winter in Edmonton.;)

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Mum keeps the car; Dad commutes by transit (if feasible).

I didn’t mean to have a go at anyone (and I apologise if it came across as such), but to state “you will need two cars” is not necessary, without knowing where the OP will be working / living.

My point is, if living in an area where transit is sufficient to get you to / from work, two cars would be a ‘nice to have’ rather than a necessity. It is also an expense the OP would not have to worry about.

With 3 kids under 12, they certainly will need one car, and Mum will need to have the keys most of the time ;)

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Definately agree, don't feel you have to enrol your kids in every single activity there is going. Give them time to find their feet and hang out with other kids. There are plenty of activities you can do together, that don't cost a fortune, where you can meet other families.

They still do activities, we just limit them.

One reason for us coming here was to have more down time together as a family. I'm sorry but chasing around from one activity to another during the week and then giving up time together at the weekends to drive miles to kids' sporting events ain't our idea of fun or theirs. But then others seem love it ;)

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

As others have said, transit is not that extensive with three kids in tow. If the OP is out working, and probably taking a car with him, I think his wife will be ready to hang herself in two weeks without a car to get around.

Just my opinion.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

don't get us wrong, there are many many families that do it on less ans without any vehicles - so don't think for oe minute that it's not possible.

But the op asked if they could live a comfortable life - to me comfortable means not having to think "oh we can't do this because we can't afford it", or "we can't take the kids x y z because you have the car today".

However all that being said - i'd go for it - its not paupers wages by any stretch - have fun and enjoy Edmonton :thumbsup:

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

A person who says Edmonton has an extensive public transport system is a person who's never been to Edmonton.

The bus service is quite decent, but depending on where you want to go to and from where may require numerous changes.

The train service consists of 1 route. This is going to be built upon but is not here yet.

The town centre is not very good, the vast majority would shop in one of the numerous Mall's or shopping areas like South Common.

We live in South Edmonton, with 2 little ones and my wife is starting to learn to drive, this will be a necessity once they start pre-school, school etc. We're a 40 minute walk from the nearest shopping and who wants to stand at a bustop at -35 degrees.

$90K would be decent to start, but depending on what the OP does, that could escalate up once he gets PR and shop around a bit if the employer doesn't up the $105K.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Thank you all for the replys.

I think that you have answered the original question, and what I consider living comfortably can be achieved on the Salary being offered, I know that money is not the 'be all and end all' but I have previously put my family in a position where we overstretched our finances and it was awful and affect everything we could and could not do, so I am perhaps a little uber cautious not to repeat that mistake.

I consider the move to be permanent my eldest is coming up to 11yrs so fairly important time in his schooling and I would not want to disrupt him further. In my line of work the opportunities and rewards in Canada far exceed what is possible in the UK at the present time and for the forseeable future, I also think that the prospect for my children could be better.

I am planning to sell my house in the UK, which will free up a small amount of equity, I have already had a disasterous attempt at renting it out so wont be going down that road again!

As with most families Mrs lb77's happiness is the most important thing in the world, because she has to be there for everyone else and if she was stuck in a situation where she could not do what she needed to do, in order to to get some fulfillment due to financial constraints, then the move would be a total non starter. This will mean 2 cars will be required (and finding some babysitting) so I will factor that in.

I have been told that in Canada you are more likely to be judged on your hard work and on who you are, rather than on what car you drive/how big your house is/obsession with how much your house is worth/what school your kids go to/what label clothes you wear/what sports clubs your kids attend, which is my experience of the UK and it doesnt seem to be getting any better.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

We moved from Edmonton last year. I've a wife, and 2 kids who are now 5 & 6. We had one car, normal sized house, dont smoke, had no holidays, ate out every now and then...

My salary was $72k and we pretty much lived month to month.
Is $90k, with 3 kids do-able? Probably, but like others have said, you're not gonna be rolling in it unfortunately.

I havent read all the other replies, so sorry if this has already been mentioned, but the cost of putting your kids in sports etc is expensive. The equipment itself is expensive. Groceries are expensive. We spend $200 ish every week on shopping, and my kids are young.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

To add to the other comments about cars/public transit. Really depends on where you live and where you work. Getting to downtown Edmonton is easy from most parts of the City. Getting from one side of Edmonton to the other is ridiculous.
I used to live in Sherwood Park, which is a community east of Edmonton. It had 80,000 people, so it's own transit system etc. However, I still couldnt get the bus to work. I had to either drive to the bus station (or get the missus to), and then get the bus. Not a major headache at the time as the kids werent in school, but when they started etc, it was a PITA.

You'll probably need two cars, unless wifey is happy staying at home with nowhere to go.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

I'm afraid it's no different in Canada. Depending where you live people judge on size of Truck, type of car, clothing, house, etc. In my experience, it's the same with school kids and definitely no different to the UK. So in my opinion, if you remove that expectation, you'll be fine.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Yep, i will make up my own mind after i get out there for a look.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

That's the best way. Make up your won mind after you've lived here a while. Labelling definitely does go on. You'll be labelled one way if you drive a pick up, wear a cap, have a dog in the back, and dress like a hillbilly. Another way if you wear designer clothes and drive a convertable mercedes sports car. And completely another way if you're a middle aged chinese lady driving a Lexus SUV.

I also believe hard work might only get you so far here. Knowing the right people can get you further.

Just a few tidbits to consider:

Bullying in Canada is worse than England according to stats.
http://prevnet.ca/BullyingFacts/Bull...2/Default.aspx


Kids are bullied in Canada for wearing the "wrong" clothing
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119326834963770540.html

Teens and adolescents are expected to wear not just any designer brands but the "right" ones. "The better brands you wear, the more popular you are," says Becky Gilker, a 13-year-old eighth-grader from Sherwood Park in the Canadian province of Alberta. "If you don't wear those things you get criticized." In many schools, the most expensive designer goods, such as those by Chanel or Louis Vuitton, have the highest social ranking among girls. But popular teen brands such as American Eagle, Abercrombie & Fitch and Aeropostale are also important. Miss Gilker says Hollister and Roxy are big logos at her school.

But even the wrong color can bring put-downs, Miss Gilker notes. When she wears pink, she says, "I get the snarky 'Nice clothes!' when people walk by in the halls."

On a more positive note, the money you quote would give you a decent life although not extravagent. Your children would experience different (not better) things and different (not better) opportunities. This can be a good thing.

So if you keep your expectations real, the chances of success are high i think.

Hope you enjoy :)

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

i have lived in Edmonton with 3 kids under 12 with just me working...i am now in the process of moving to Calgary.

i think the money is very doable...transport is fine but you do have to change buses to get places.

What is it that you do for a job?

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Monkey,

I am a chartered Structural Engineer 10+ years experience with a specialisation in Steel Framed buildings, I think salary wise the offer is good comparing it to the published pay scales and considering I need a years Canadian experience to get a recognised qualification, wage ceiling seems to be $125,000.00 for Structural Engineers.

My experience is in general building structures and not in Oil and Gas unfortunatly, which does seem to pay better salarys.

Can I be a Cheeky Monkey and ask what salary you managed on, with 3 kids as the sole bread winner?

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

I also work in the construction field in main contracting as a project director..i came to Canada as a construction project manager and started on $105k..and managed fine with just one car living in a nice house in a nice part of town.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Update have been offered and accepted the job offer will be coming out in early July. Now to find somewhere to rent 3-4 bed, sherwood park or south west ideally furnished, have looked on Rent Faster and Kijiji, any other good web sites out there?

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Shame you were not here bit sooner could have had my old gaff..just handed back the keys 2 weeks ago..lovely house in a great area of Edmonton.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

What area was thet cheeky monkey? at least gives me some kind of starting point where too look and what was your rent costs if you dont mind me asking?

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

I was in Riverbend/Terwillegar area...if you are looking at fully furnished your going to be paying between $2k-$2.5k per month plus utilities for a 3/4 bedroom house.

For me it is the best part of the city that's within the city limits..i really liked it as did my wife and kids.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

thanks

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

When we had our house, we found it on http://edmonton.rentfaster.ca/

Any questions about Sherwood Park, feel free to ask.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

got my house from rentboard.ca

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Seriously, if you can't be comfortable on a six figure salary, somethings wrong. I work in Engineering (Infrastructure) in BC - had a six figure salary, a family of four with two vey active teenage daughters, two cars, nice house, two dogs and had a very comfortable lifestyle.

So, just curious, what would your salary be back in the UK as it seems their salaries are lower - taking the usual, cost of living, change in currency, etc.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Hawk, as a good experienced structural engineer in the north of england UK, my gross base salary is £42,000.00 ($67,000.00CAD) after tax figure is £30,936.00 ($49,325.00CAD), I also get a company vehicle, company mobile, pension contributions, private medical insurance (not really required over here). That is a good package over here but it doesnt go far supporting a family of 5. Cost of living, my impression having been over there was that Edmonton is higher cost of living than the north of England and probably the same cost of living as the south of England and cheaper than the cost of living in London, but the increased salary more than made up for it and once my Peng was achieved I would be able to live comfortably and afford the odd luxury item/holiday.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Thanks for the reply and I was figuring around £45K but wasn't sure - it's quite the difference and makes me wonder if I really want to move back but it's not all about money sometimes.

Hope you enjoy Calgary and your holidays in BC, lol.

Re: Edmonton Advice
 

Apart from houses what is the difference in the cost of living between the north of England and the south?