"Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Nov 8th 2006, 6:30 pm
#1
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"Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
<rant on>
For those who dont know, in Ontario before you can renew an older cars license plate sticker, every couple of years you need to get its exhaust emmisions checked..the "Drive Clean" program.
If you pass, all well and good. If you fail, there is a thing called a "conditional" pass that shows you spent some money and tried (and failed) to fix the problem,. You take your "conditional" pass and get your license sticker...with me so far?
You can drive around with a conditional pass, but cant re-register the vehicle to a new owner without a real pass. The idea being that the old polluting cars will be retired off in time...fair enough.
Where I live the spending limit for a conditional pass is $450. Last time around (2004) my wifes old Mazda failed the test. After some cleaning and tinkering following the diagnostic proceedure, the conclusion was the next thing to try would be a new catalytic converter, but as that would push me over the $450 limit, it got its conditional pass and away I went for the license sticker. OK, so far so good. Where's the insanity I hear you ask?
Took it in today for its drive clean, two years on. Still fails...no surprise, I doubt that in the history of mankind a catalytic converter has ever magically fixed itself, so I leave it with them, tell them the cat needs replacing based on the last lot of diagnostics, and tell them a conditional pass will do, Im not going to sell it so Im not that bothered.
Do they change the cat and get a pass? No, of course not, that would make NO sense!!!! See, the rules that the GOVERNMENT HAS DECREED are they HAVE to do all the diagnostic stuff and tinkering about again that cost the best part of $400 to determine what to do next.
If I paid the $300 to change the cat first, and then it still failed the retest, then that money would not count towards the "conditional" $ threshold....Guess what, the tinkering didnt work...it still fails...IT NEEDS A NEW CATALYTIC CONVERTER. who'd have thought it eh!
Why would changing the cat at this point not count towards the conditional total!!! There must be countless thousands of cars failing the drive clean driving round because the government regulations makes it impossible to change the cat (even though you know its probably the most likely culprit for failing the smog test!) without risking it not counting towards your conditional $ threshold, and getting stung for over $800 just to renew your f'ing license sticker
I know its not just mine...the mechanic who worked on it said his truck was in exactly the same situation. Insanity I tell you.
<rant off>
For those who dont know, in Ontario before you can renew an older cars license plate sticker, every couple of years you need to get its exhaust emmisions checked..the "Drive Clean" program.
If you pass, all well and good. If you fail, there is a thing called a "conditional" pass that shows you spent some money and tried (and failed) to fix the problem,. You take your "conditional" pass and get your license sticker...with me so far?
You can drive around with a conditional pass, but cant re-register the vehicle to a new owner without a real pass. The idea being that the old polluting cars will be retired off in time...fair enough.
Where I live the spending limit for a conditional pass is $450. Last time around (2004) my wifes old Mazda failed the test. After some cleaning and tinkering following the diagnostic proceedure, the conclusion was the next thing to try would be a new catalytic converter, but as that would push me over the $450 limit, it got its conditional pass and away I went for the license sticker. OK, so far so good. Where's the insanity I hear you ask?
Took it in today for its drive clean, two years on. Still fails...no surprise, I doubt that in the history of mankind a catalytic converter has ever magically fixed itself, so I leave it with them, tell them the cat needs replacing based on the last lot of diagnostics, and tell them a conditional pass will do, Im not going to sell it so Im not that bothered.
Do they change the cat and get a pass? No, of course not, that would make NO sense!!!! See, the rules that the GOVERNMENT HAS DECREED are they HAVE to do all the diagnostic stuff and tinkering about again that cost the best part of $400 to determine what to do next.
If I paid the $300 to change the cat first, and then it still failed the retest, then that money would not count towards the "conditional" $ threshold....Guess what, the tinkering didnt work...it still fails...IT NEEDS A NEW CATALYTIC CONVERTER. who'd have thought it eh!
Why would changing the cat at this point not count towards the conditional total!!! There must be countless thousands of cars failing the drive clean driving round because the government regulations makes it impossible to change the cat (even though you know its probably the most likely culprit for failing the smog test!) without risking it not counting towards your conditional $ threshold, and getting stung for over $800 just to renew your f'ing license sticker
I know its not just mine...the mechanic who worked on it said his truck was in exactly the same situation. Insanity I tell you.
<rant off>
Last edited by iaink; Nov 8th 2006 at 7:18 pm.
Nov 8th 2006, 6:38 pm
#2
Now on Vancouver Island
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,935
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
You could always come to Alberta. There's none of that insanity here. 
Nov 8th 2006, 6:48 pm
#3
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by iaink
<rant on>
For those who dont know, in Ontario before you can renew your car license plate sticker, every couple of years you need to get its exhaust emmisions checked..the "Drive Clean" program.
If you pass, all well and good. If you fail, there is a thing called a "conditional" pass that shows you spent some money and tried (and failed) to fix the problem,. You take your "conditional" pass and get your license sticker...with me so far?
You can drive around with a conditional pass, but cant re-register the vehicle to a new owner without a real pass. The idea being that the old polluting cars will be retired off in time..fair enough.
Where I live the spending limit for a conditional pass is $450. Last time around (2004) my wifes old Mazda failed the test. After some cleaning and tinkering following the diagnostic proceedure, the conclusion was the next thing to try would be a new catalytic converter, but as that would push me over the $450 limit, it got its conditional pass and away I went for the license sticker. OK, so far so good. Where's the insanity I hear you ask?
Took it in today for its drive clean, two years on. Still fails...no surprise, I doubt that in the history of mankind a catalytic converter has ever magically fixed itself, so I leave it with them, tell them the cat needs replacing based on the last lot of diagnostics, and tell them a conditional pass will do, Im not going to sell it so Im not that bothered.
Do they change the cat and get a pass? No, of course not, that would make NO sense!!!! See, the rules that the GOVERNMENT HAS DECREED are they HAVE to do all the diagnostic stuff and tinkering about again that cost the best part of $400 to determine what to do next.
If I paid the $300 to change the cat first, and then it still failed the retest, then that money would not count towards the "conditional" $ threshold....Guess what, the tinkering didnt work...it still fails...IT NEEDS A NEW CATALYTIC CONVERTER. who'd have thought it eh!
Why would changing the cat at this point not count towards the conditional total!!! There must be countless thousands of cars failing the drive clean driving round because the government regulations makes it impossible to change the cat (even though you know its probably the most likely culprit for failing the smog test!) without risking it not counting towards your conditional $ threshold, and getting stung for over $800 just to renew your f'ing license sticker
I know its not just mine...the mechanic who worked on it said his truck was in exactly the same situation. Insanity I tell you.
<rant off>
For those who dont know, in Ontario before you can renew your car license plate sticker, every couple of years you need to get its exhaust emmisions checked..the "Drive Clean" program.
If you pass, all well and good. If you fail, there is a thing called a "conditional" pass that shows you spent some money and tried (and failed) to fix the problem,. You take your "conditional" pass and get your license sticker...with me so far?
You can drive around with a conditional pass, but cant re-register the vehicle to a new owner without a real pass. The idea being that the old polluting cars will be retired off in time..fair enough.
Where I live the spending limit for a conditional pass is $450. Last time around (2004) my wifes old Mazda failed the test. After some cleaning and tinkering following the diagnostic proceedure, the conclusion was the next thing to try would be a new catalytic converter, but as that would push me over the $450 limit, it got its conditional pass and away I went for the license sticker. OK, so far so good. Where's the insanity I hear you ask?
Took it in today for its drive clean, two years on. Still fails...no surprise, I doubt that in the history of mankind a catalytic converter has ever magically fixed itself, so I leave it with them, tell them the cat needs replacing based on the last lot of diagnostics, and tell them a conditional pass will do, Im not going to sell it so Im not that bothered.
Do they change the cat and get a pass? No, of course not, that would make NO sense!!!! See, the rules that the GOVERNMENT HAS DECREED are they HAVE to do all the diagnostic stuff and tinkering about again that cost the best part of $400 to determine what to do next.
If I paid the $300 to change the cat first, and then it still failed the retest, then that money would not count towards the "conditional" $ threshold....Guess what, the tinkering didnt work...it still fails...IT NEEDS A NEW CATALYTIC CONVERTER. who'd have thought it eh!
Why would changing the cat at this point not count towards the conditional total!!! There must be countless thousands of cars failing the drive clean driving round because the government regulations makes it impossible to change the cat (even though you know its probably the most likely culprit for failing the smog test!) without risking it not counting towards your conditional $ threshold, and getting stung for over $800 just to renew your f'ing license sticker
I know its not just mine...the mechanic who worked on it said his truck was in exactly the same situation. Insanity I tell you.
<rant off>
What's insane is the lengths to which you seem prepared to go to continue driving a car which needs repair. Air pollution costs all of us a lot of trouble (and $$).
Nov 8th 2006, 7:08 pm
#4
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Posts: 30,768
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
What's insane is the lengths to which you seem prepared to go to continue driving a car which needs repair. Air pollution costs all of us a lot of trouble (and $$).
Catalytic converters arguably do more harm to the environment than good anyway...they increase CO2 emissions, and require a far richer fuel / air mixture that modern lean burn engine technology could happily run on in order to sustain the catalysed reaction.
But thats neither here nor there. If it was up to me I would (fairly) happily spend up to the $450 to change the cat...but not if there is a danger it might still fail and I could get stiffed for $750+ instead.
I could always just go buy a new one... but then a new vehicle requires way more resources and energy to make than it ever uses in its lifetime, so that would be environmental vandalism too.
Nov 8th 2006, 8:49 pm
#5
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by iaink
It doesn't need repair, it just fails the drive clean. Apart from that its doing fine.
Catalytic converters arguably do more harm to the environment than good anyway...they increase CO2 emissions, and require a far richer fuel / air mixture that modern lean burn engine technology could happily run on in order to sustain the catalysed reaction.
But thats neither here nor there. If it was up to me I would (fairly) happily spend up to the $450 to change the cat...but not if there is a danger it might still fail and I could get stiffed for $750+ instead.
Catalytic converters arguably do more harm to the environment than good anyway...they increase CO2 emissions, and require a far richer fuel / air mixture that modern lean burn engine technology could happily run on in order to sustain the catalysed reaction.
But thats neither here nor there. If it was up to me I would (fairly) happily spend up to the $450 to change the cat...but not if there is a danger it might still fail and I could get stiffed for $750+ instead.
Nov 8th 2006, 9:05 pm
#6
mañana is my busiest day
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
First block heaters, now catalytic converters. 
I'm just going to sit back and eat some popcorn.
I'm just going to sit back and eat some popcorn.
Nov 8th 2006, 9:48 pm
#7
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,010
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by iaink
It doesn't need repair, it just fails the drive clean. Apart from that its doing fine.
Homer: Uh oh... the tape must have fallen off.... there, problem solved
K.
Nov 9th 2006, 1:01 pm
#8
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Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Now you're just being disingenuous. The car is emitting illegal amounts of (I presume) NOx: ergo it needs fixing.
Yes, its the NOx. You can either emit NOx, or convert it to CO2 and N2. People in general seem more concerned woith global warming than acid rain at the moment
Nov 9th 2006, 1:01 pm
#9
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Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by kt0157
Lisa: Hey dad, that light says check engine...
Homer: Uh oh... the tape must have fallen off.... there, problem solved
K.
Homer: Uh oh... the tape must have fallen off.... there, problem solved
K.
Thats not the problem...I removed that bulb years ago! 
Nov 9th 2006, 4:26 pm
#10
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by iaink
.
Yes, its the NOx. You can either emit NOx, or convert it to CO2 and N2. People in general seem more concerned woith global warming than acid rain at the moment
Yes, its the NOx. You can either emit NOx, or convert it to CO2 and N2. People in general seem more concerned woith global warming than acid rain at the moment
. NOx is bad because it is a precursor of ozone and particles, both of which correlate strongly with a range of undesirable health outcomes, including asthma. Nowt to do with climate change.
Nov 9th 2006, 5:08 pm
#11
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Posts: 127
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by iaink
Thats not the problem...I removed that bulb years ago! My check engine light came on a few months ago. As i'm undertaking a project to see how little money I can spend on my Sunfire*, I cheerfully ignored it.
The day before I went to sign up for my new car and get the Sunfire assessed for trade-in, the light magically switched itself off!
Sure enough, it stayed off for the duration of the visit at the dealership, and came back on two days later! Magical!
What are the chances!
* Expenses in 18 months (56k km): One new headlight bulb, one new brake light bulb. Three "Economy Lube" oil changes. Two air fresheners. One bottle of washer fluid (last winter). Two new front tires.
Things that need replacing urgently: back tires, clutch, both front and rear brakes (rear brake squealing for past 5 weeks), oil, spark plugs, air filter, coolant, tranny fluid. Oh, and the gas tank leaks if you put more than $20 in it. The drive clean is next year
Nov 9th 2006, 5:14 pm
#12
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Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Clutch and Tranny Fluid? Arent they mutually exclusive?
You do realise that actually bothering to replace broken bulbs is totally uncanadian
Check engine lights for things like timing misses (or mis-sparking due to damp cables for example) do dissapear after a set time...but you are right, you were dead lucky!
You do realise that actually bothering to replace broken bulbs is totally uncanadian
Check engine lights for things like timing misses (or mis-sparking due to damp cables for example) do dissapear after a set time...but you are right, you were dead lucky!
Last edited by iaink; Nov 9th 2006 at 5:17 pm.
Nov 9th 2006, 5:19 pm
#13
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Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Posts: 127
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by iaink
Clutch and Tranny Fluid? Arent they mutually exclusive?
I know for sure that the clutch is slipping, and when I change gear it's more of a grind than a glide. Happily only 4 commuting days left in it now, before I get an auto and save my left shoe from being ruined in constant 401-crawling.
PS - thanks for your private message, i'll give that guy a call.
Last edited by Lionel_in_Ontario; Nov 9th 2006 at 5:21 pm.
Nov 9th 2006, 5:27 pm
#14
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Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
I though tranny fluid was strictly for autos?
Nov 9th 2006, 5:48 pm
#15
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Posts: 127
Re: "Drive Clean" Insanity!!!
Originally Posted by iaink
I though tranny fluid was strictly for autos?
I'd like to think so anyway. The grease monkeys at Economy Lube always try to convince me it needs replacing anyhow!
(as expertly explained by their "engineer" - the transmission is what makes your car move
)