paul.b

Hi everyone

do any of you know how difficult it is for UK trained doctors to make the move to canada.

I'm a surgeon in training in the UK and would love to jump the pond. However, initial enquiries seem to throw up a multitude of barriers and horror stories of doctors from various countries now driving taxis and delivering pizzas etc. Is this the true picture in a country that I can gather is also short of doctors??

If anyone in my position has made the move or know someone who has then I'd love to hear from you.
Thanks
Paul

ClareBC

I was listening to a radio program about this recently. So this is from memory but you will most probably have to take Canadian qualifications. In BC there are a limited number of spaces (20 a year) for you to do this (I believe it is a one year course)

Why don't you contact http://www.aipso.ca/ (The Association of International Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario) and see what they have to say?

But the site does say "Each province and territory has different requirements for getting a license and each province has a different method of assessing, orienting and/or training foreign-trained doctors. Most require that graduates of foreign medical schools become Licentiates of the Medical Council of Canada, have some training at a Canadian university, and hold a Canadian certificate in Family Medicine or a specialty. Some provinces have special licenses that will let you practice under supervision or in under-serviced areas. In theory, licensing in each province should be challenging but straight forward. However the difficulty arises because the only path to a residency program or to conditional licensing is through a provincial assessment and/or medical training program. Each program, regardless of whether it is based on assessment or training has a very limited intake of foreign-trained doctors.

Getting a license can be a very frustrating and difficult process."

There are times I get soo frustrated with the attitude towards non-Canadian professionals in this country (Mind you I have a friend who trained in Toronto as a teacher, and had to take more teaching certificates in BC to enable her to qualify as a teacher in this province - and she has a masters in education and has recently published - but none of that was recognised )

Good luck
Clare

paul.b

tester

paul.b

Hi there Clare

thanks for the pointers!! It seems as though I'll have to choose a particular province and plan to stay there - doesn't seem to be too easy to move province and take your training with you, even with Canadian training like your friend! Seems so backward - so unbelievable it must be true!!

I'll take the Canadian medical school finals exam soon and this is fair enough since I realise that thet have to establish a baseline of knowledge for foreign doctors. Getting a residency program is a catch 22 situation. I don't mind being a resident again if that's what it takes but I can't apply for a program without landed immigrant status and can't get the landed immigrant status without a job offer ( in my case resident)!!

There must be a way through these barriers. I'm sure that if I learn French then I'll have enough points to get landed immigrant status without a job offer - maybe this is the way through. Then comes the gamble of coming out to apply for the programs and hoping I get one - hopefully not commiting career suicide in the process if I hit a dead-end!!

Had hoped that by sucessfully jumping through all the hoops in the UK system it might go some way in smoothing the path over there. Don't mind doing the training again as long as I can get invited in when I arrive over there - get the feeling this will be a long and expensive process!!

You may end up seeing me deliver pizza in BC!! I'll try the sites you mentioned - maybe ontario will be more foreign medical graduate friendly.

any more tips would be gratefully recieved

hope BC is warmer than Scotland (wouldn't be hard!!)
thanks
Paul

Jon&Ann

There are quite a few UK Doctors that are working in
another trade in BC. I know of one, an excellent Doc
who has gained the PR and now works in
a Holiday Centre (not in Health Care).

Talking to him recently he said he'd never come back
even though he could make three times the amount
he's on now. He could even work in Europe and live
quite well in his own trade.

His Brother (Not a Doc) went over in May on the Visa Waiver
and has placed an application for a work Visa in BC, being
offered a job within the Marine trade. Funny enough he
gained his qualifications over 3 years and should be
earning twice the amount his brother is now, his brother spending 7 years training including A&E here in the UK.

I suppose it's quality of Life rather than Financial gain.

The Strange thing, a number of A&E trained Nurses here
can gain work in BC (Vancouver) without a problem
within Health Care but a Doctor can't ?

ClareBC

It definitely is quality of life - not financial gain!

Moving here was financially dire - but we will never be moving back

Clare

discouraged

Unfortunately, quality of life and financial gain are inextricably linked, particularly if you are a professional in the UK whose qualifications, and therefore earning potential, are worthless in Canada due to the pathetic superiority complex and protectionist attitude of the Canadian professional bodies.

For any professional wanting to go to Canada, you have to do the sums. The older you are, and the longer you have been in the profession, the less the numbers stack up. You have to bear in mind the considerable sacrifices you have made, and expense you have incurred, in qualifying as a professional over many years, together with the potential loss of a good salary, pension rights, job security, and earning potential in the "home country". You also have to consider whether you can reconcile your self-respect and professionalism with delivering pizzas to survive, whilst grovelling at the feet of some Mickey Mouse provincial professional body to beg them for the privilege of joining their "club" for the chance to earn less than you did at home. The stakes are high, so, ultimately, you have to ask yourself one question: Is the "dream" worth the gamble?

Sorry to be so negative, but trust me, I speak from experience. Canada talks a good game when it says it wants professionals from other countries, but is found out when it is put to the test.

Discouraged.

nmakrets1

Hello Poul,

this problem sounds real. But if you are not only a surgeon from UK, but have been trained in UK, they might recognize your skills if only you are able to pass the whole bunch of exams before you are allowed to touch the patients.
I suspect there is no exception. They may though provide you with the tepporary licence without these exams if you are desperately looking for a position in underserved remore area.

Nick,
Russian pathologist

paul.b

Hi there

The more I learn about moving within the medical profession to Canada the more obstructive the whole process seems to get.

Maybe UK training would make a difference but I think the days of colonial ties are long gone. I'm not convinced that being UK trained will make any difference to the fact that I'm an international medical graduate; Canadians who have studied abroad seem to be treated in the same way. I really don't think UK training/citizenship will confer any advantage.

I guess it all boils down to what you want more - I'm trying to decide if I want to live in Canada more than I want to be a surgeon - it seems I wouldn't be able to have both. I've got so much ambition for surgery that it would be tough to give it all up now and even the profession all together in order to make the move over. I've got alot of thinking to do but in the meantime will be taking the canadian exams - starting November.

I'm also absolutely convinced that there will be a way through these barriers. It must be possible and the dream certainly seems to be worth working for; these things never come easy.

Giving up on medicine, or on any existing skills/training that any individual may have, seems to be the only clear way to sucessfully migrate into Canada at the present time. I then think your adaptability/flexibility will tell if you can make a go of it or not.

cheers
Paul

Purley

I keep hearing these horror stories on this board - and I keep hoping they aren't completley true! It just seems so totally ridiculous when we are short of doctors and nurses and physiotherapists that they make English speaking professionals jump through hoops like they appear to do.

I can understand if you don't speak English and you want to work in English that this would understandably be a problem.

We seem to have lots and lots of South African doctors here. My own doctor is South African and he has been at the clinic for 3 or 4 years now. I believe that most of the doctors at my clinic are south African.

I have also heard of some program where doctors can come here from other countries and so long as they agree to practice in a more remote area where there are no doctors - there is some deal there.

You could try emailing the Saskatchewan Medical Association.

http://www.sma.sk.ca/index.aspx

I think you have to stay in a remote area for a certain number of years - might be 2 years - I dont really know and that gives you some kind of an in.

I will check with a friend who might know more detail and if I find something out I will post here.

Purley

Here is another link

http://www.reginahealth.sk.ca/diy_jo....cgi?cmd=roots

Its worth a try. You might have more success in a smaller place like Saskatchewan than you would in Ontario or BC.

A-BETTER-CHANCE

Hi Paul,

I heared the Province of Manitoba is interested in recruiting foreign trained doctors. There is a website that might help you:

http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/mlpimg/

take care,

Doris from Ottawa where only Canadian diplomas are recognized...

Daltrey

too me either,

Canada is actively recruiting doctors,

It sounds like you are talking to the wrong people
or going through the wrong channels...

The worst thing someone in the UK can do is rely on
someone in the UK for your information or immigration/ paperwork related info.

Deal directly with the Canadian immigration
people or their governing bodies.

It isn't as big a hurdle as you think,it can't be as
Canada is full of foreign trained doctors.

A-BETTER-CHANCE

Yes, right,
It doesn't make sense...

Canada is actively recruiting not only doctors, but all academic professionals - and once they are in the country they learn the hard way: their foreign diplomas are not worth the paper...

Sounds like a good business: either one has to go back to university in Canada again to obtain Canadian licencies or has to take a low level job.

The non-profit-organization I am volunteerly involved works very hard on the political front to inform politicians and buerocrats and make a chance in the life of newcomers to Canada. We need more members to get more political influence. It makes a difference ift we consist of 1,000 members or 50,000!
Join us! Its free!!! Have a look at www.a-better-chance.org


Doris

Keelie

Hi Paul....sorry I can't offer advice, but It might be encouraging if I tell you that my spouse's doctor is Scottish, and mine is a youngish lady from Somerset.
There are hundreds of 'foreign' doctors here.

As an example of how well things work here in western Canada...my husbands doctor urged him to have a pacemaker installed a few days ago...hubby agreed, and within the week it was a done deed.
Operation at 7.30 am. home by noon. Just wondering how this would compare with the U.K.? and of course it was totally covered by Alberta Health Care insurance.
Look to Alberta...we are very advanced in all fields of medicine, and have attracted world-class people to our universities and hospitals. Good luck.

Keelie.