nit78

I am curious if I can apply for a British Citizen. My father was a British Citizen and migrated to Canada, he became a Canadian Citizen in 1972 but I don't think he denounced his British Citizenship. Anyways is it possible for me to apply for British Citizen through decent since I was born in 1978 in Canada.

crazy72

wrong forum

lins and Stef McLachlan

Hi
That would depend on a lot of things. Where you were born and what nationality your mother and father was. I am digging deep into my mental reserves here. I was a Passport Officer for 4 years dealing in nationality re citizenship. I just hope I am remembering this correctly as it was a few years ago now.

If you were born before 1.1.1983 (which you were) to a Mother,(her being the more important, can't remember why) or father who was either British by Birth or through naturalisation and you were born in UK then you would be a British Citizen by birth.

If you were born outside the UK, you would be British by Descent from your parents as long as they were British or Naturalised. Descent claims can go back as far as your Grandparents, but in that case, your children if born outside UK could not claim to be British by Descent, as you would then have it by descent and it can't be carried to the next generation. (you would need to double chek this with the Passport office).

After 1.1.1983 a new Nationality Act was brought in meaning that for those born in the UK who were NOT born to parents who were british Citizens or Naturalised or had the Right of Permanent Residence in the UK, the child would not be British but would take its nationality from the parents. This sewed up the loophole of foreigners heavily pregnant coming to Britain for the purpose of giving birth and claiming nationality for their offspring.

I hope this helps
Get in touch with the passport office and complete the forms with your parents details and any passport numbers for them. Send in the fee, photos and Full Birth Certificate and you should be good to go
Hope this helps even a bit. As I said it was a while ago, made a bit easier for me with you being born before 1.1.83 and those changes.
Let me know how you get on
Stef

JAJ

Were you actually dealing in this stuff? It's pretty basic to know that before 1.1.83 everyone born in the UK was British except children of diplomats and enemy aliens. Status of parents was irrelevant.



Wrong again! Since 1915, British nationality only passes to the first generation born overseas. There are circumstances where a UK born grandparent can impact a claim for British citizenship, but usually there is some other link involved with a British colony or territory.



"Child would not be British" ... true (if neither parent is British/settled), BUT

"would take its nationality from the parents" ... perhaps it's stating the obvious that British law only concerns British nationality and cannot say what other nationalities a child may or may not have.

lins and Stef McLachlan

Hi Jaj
We always had to advise parents who were not British to register their children for passports in their country of origin.
As I said it was a good few years ago now.
Stef

"Child would not be British" ... true (if neither parent is British/settled), BUT

"would take its nationality from the parents" ... perhaps it's stating the obvious that British law only concerns British nationality and cannot say what other nationalities a child may or may not have.[/QUOTE]

JAJ

If at least one parent is a permanent resident, then child is British even if they are not.

But the United Kingdom cannot insist that another country grant citizenship to a UK-born child. There are cases (albeit unusual) where a child born in the UK to foreign parents may not inherit either nationality.

In that case if the child isn't British, the child ends up stateless.

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...United_Kingdom

lins and Stef McLachlan

Hi
The child should never be stateless as the parents country is where they would get their nationality from through the status of the parents or grandparents, depending on the rules of that country. What is said here is that if they are not British, then they should look to their parents for their nationality.

I did not even remotely imply that those countries would have to grant nationality and therefore passports, that would quite rightly be a matter for their rulebook.
Just that Britain would not.
Stef

JAJ

And when they look, occasionally, the child is not eligible for any foreign nationality. This can be due to:

- some countries do not let mothers or unmarried fathers pass on citizenship;
- in some cases, if the parent is a citizen by descent or has not lived in the country for x years, the child is not entitled to citizenship.

Hence the following:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...e/bornintheuk/


You may not have implied it - but you said it!

Incidentally, a non-British child who lives in the UK until age 10 can be registered as a British citizen regardless of immigration status or any other nationality.

lins and Stef McLachlan

I will not get into an arguement with you, but I did not say it, or imply it,how could I when I don't know how their nationalities are decided, that would be for the person involved to find out. Please don't read between lines and then feel that your comments are justified.

It is not very nice that you feel that I should be berated for trying to help....I did not set myself up as an expert and there are a lot of things I have forgotten as pointed out in my first reply. As you have read, my advice was for the OP do do more checking. Maybe you are the expert?
Stef

nit78

Hello Stef Thank you for your response, just to give you a little more details on the situation. My father assumed he lost his British Citizenship when he became a Canadian Citizen but he has never officially denounced his British Citizenship, My Grandmother who just recently passed away had always maintained her British Citizenship along with a Canadian Permanent Residency. My Father was born in Kenya and I assume since my Grandfather worked for the British Government he was born a British Citizen so I am not sure if this affects my claim on decent. But his first citizenship was British my Grandparents were Indian and then received British Citizenship. My mother was never a British Citizen just a Canadian only.

Can you tell me if decent would apply to me since I was born before 1983 and can my father still get a British passport although he is now Canadian and has never denounced his British Citizenship.

lins and Stef McLachlan

If your father got his British Citizenship by descent from his parents,(as he was born in Kenya, that kind of puts a spanner in the works) then he cannot pass this on to you as it does not pass further down the Generations than to him. Your father would be classed as first generation born abroad and you would then become second generation born abroad and not have a valid claim to BC
If he had been born in Britain then he could have passed it to you, but you could not then pass it on to your children, unless you had BC and they had subseqently been born in Britain.
Your dad should still be able to get a British Passport IMO, but you would need to ask specific questions of the Passport Office and my suggestion would be to contact them or look into it further on their website. Descent claims are never straightforward.

It is possible to hold dual citizenship for Britain and Canada now, but I don't know what the rules would have been when your father went to Canada, and that is what you need to find out, as it may be that this dual nationality would not have been recognised back then? That in order to emigrate, you had to discard the other nationality...I don't know.
Hope this helps
Stef

JAJ

Leaving aside the point that there was no such thing as British citizenship before 1983, one should be aware that Kenya (most of it, anyway) was part of the United Kingdom & Colonies prior to 12.12.1963.

So a person born in the Kenya Colony prior to that date was a Citizen of the UK & Colonies by birth, not descent.

And when Kenya became independent, many CUKCs did not become Kenyan citizens (you also had to have a Kenya born parent to become Kenyan) and hence retained British nationality.

Assuming father was born in the Kenya Colony, and didn't lose CUKC at independence, and provided his parents were married, it looks like he was a CUKC by descent automatically at birth in 1978.

HOWEVER, unless he acquired a Right of Abode in the UK prior to 1983, he would have become a British Overseas citizen on 1.1.83. I see no evidence that any of the requirements for ROA were met.

Doesn't matter!! Canada did require an informal renunciation prior to 1973 or so, but never required this to be followed up by formal renunciation under home country law. So anyone who renounced a foreign nationality to the Canadian authorities still kept it if the home country chose to ignore that. As far as I'm aware, prior to 1977, British nationals didn't need to attend a citizenship ceremony to become Canadian.

Siouxie

From The government website:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...port/DG_174145

If you were born before 1 January 1983

On 1 January 1983, anyone who was a citizen of the UK and Colonies on 31 December 1982, and had the 'right of abode' in the UK, became a British citizen.

'Right of abode' means you are entirely free from UK Immigration Control and don’t need to get permission from an Immigration Officer to enter the UK and can live and work in the UK without restriction.

This includes people who:

were born in the UK
were born in a British colony and had the right of abode in the UK
have been naturalised in the UK
had registered as a citizen of the UK and Colonies
could prove legitimate descent from a father to whom one of these applies
People who had the right to live in the UK but not the 'right of abode' did not become British citizens.

If you were born after 31 December 1982

Being born in the UK does not automatically give you British citizenship.

If you were born after 31 December 1982, you will be a British citizen if either your mother or father* was a British citizen or was 'settled' in the UK when you were born.

In most cases you will be a British citizen if your mother or father* was born or naturalised in the UK.

There are other situations in which a mother or father’s* British nationality can pass to their children born abroad. Please call the Passport Adviceline on 0300 222 0000 if you think this may apply to you.

*A note on fathers
Until July 2006, unmarried British fathers could not pass on their British nationality.

If you were born before then, your father’s British nationality will pass to you only if he was married to your mother. It does not matter if they were married before or after you were born.

How to tell if you are a British overseas territories citizen (BOTC)

Before the British Overseas Territories Act 2002, BOTCs were known as British Dependent Territories citizens (BDTCs).

BOTCs’ citizenship comes from a connection with a territory that is still a British dependency, like Gibraltar or Bermuda.

With the British Overseas Territories Act 2002, most people holding a BDTC passport automatically became British citizens. Only people whose status came solely from their connection with Akrotiri and Dhekelia in Cyprus did not.

The Act gives British citizenship as well as, not instead of, British overseas territories citizenship.

If you were a BDTC who became a BOTC in May 2002, you can choose to either:

renew your BDTC passport as a BOTC passport
apply for a British citizen passport

When your BDTC passport expires you can apply to renew it as a BOTC passport in the usual way. You don’t have to have the form countersigned.

If you apply for a British citizen passport, this is treated as a first-time application. You will need to provide a countersigned form and original supporting documents. Your existing passport will be returned to you uncancelled.

You should write on your application whether you are applying for a British citizen or BOTC passport.

How to tell if you are a British overseas citizen (BOC)

BOCs are people who have a connection with a former British colony (like Kenya) and who did not:

become citizens of that country when it became independent
become British citizens


How to tell if you are a British subject

Generally, British subjects were born before 1 January 1949 and had a connection with British India or the Republic of Ireland (Southern Ireland).

How to tell if you are a British national (overseas)

British nationals (overseas) are former British dependent territories citizens connected with Hong Kong.

How to tell if you are a British protected person

These are people who had a connection with territories that were previously British protectorates, protected states or mandated or trust territories.

Additionally, from citizenship guide:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br.../bornoverseas/

If you were born outside the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory
This page explains the circumstances in which someone who was born outside the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory may be a British citizen. The qualifiying territories are all the British overseas territories except for the Sovereign base areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia (in Cryprus).

If you were born outside the United Kingdom before 1 January 1983

If you were born outside the United Kingdom before 1 January 1983, you became a British citizen if, immediately before that date, you were a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies and had the right of abode in the United Kingdom.

You may have had citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent from a father who had that citizenship, or because you were registered or naturalised as a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies.

You may have had right of abode if:

you were adopted, naturalised or registered as a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies in the United Kingdom (except in certain circumstances);
you had been legally settled in the United Kingdom and ordinarily resident there for five years; or
when you were born, you had a parent who was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies because he/she was born, adopted, naturalised or registered in the United Kingdom (except in certain circumstances), or because one of your grandparents was.

There are various leaflets about all the different citizenship etc here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...ationleaflets/

Hopefully that some of this is useful. It's definitely confusing!

JAJ

The information on that site is only about 75% accurate. Included in the many inaccuracies is that prior to 1983, CUKC could pass by descent (one generation) however Right of Abode had to be qualified for individually.

For example, if a CUKC born in a Colony immigrated to Britain and acquired ROA solely by 5 years residence in the UK, and then emigrated to Canada, then (ignoring any independence complications) any children born in Canada before 1983 would not be British citizens. They would not have acquired ROA, so they would have become British Overseas citizens.

This is well documented at the Home Office as a consequence of law.