evets

Hi All,

Cross posting, originally posted in Moving back to the UK forum, suggested to reposted here.

Ok firstly probably not the correct forum to post to too, but could not see anything applicable and thought this forum would have enough traffic!

Thought I would pose this question to you guys, you all have been very helpful to date and some more than likely been in a similar position themselves. My friends and family while supportive, are not in much of a position to assist as they have not been in this position so can offer limited help.

Recently had the option to relocate or take redundancy. The offer in Toronto, well Mississauga, is just under 90k.
Healthcare, pension, mobile, etc are also included.

I am trying to work out the pro's and con's of staying in Oz or relocating. I am not overly happy in my team/role of late, number of reasons and the main reason to agreeing to relocate is having a job, in my mid 40's and age discrimination is pretty tough world wide these days. Also realised my current skill set is a little specialised and may/is hampering me. Need to spend a little time upskilling. The job market here is a little hit and and more miss at the moment, with many companies offshoring. Checking out the number of positions available that I can/could apply for in Melbourne does not offer me hope. Stalking one of the local web sites, also does not give me much confidence with a number of people complaining about the job market.

I could take the option to relocate to Sydney from Melbourne, but the salaries on offer do not work out to moving to one of most expensive cities in the world. Kind of like moving from Toronto to Vancouver on a similar salary.
One of my friend's has recently done this(Melbourne to Sydney) and was shocked how much rental properties are for what you get.

From what I can gather about Toronto/GTA, the general/overall cost of living expenses are more expensive than sites like numbeo make out. Looking at products in Ikea and general electrical gear, pricing does not appear to make up the difference in salary compared for some things, odd example ie a cast iron frying pan listed in Ikea AU is listed at the same price in Ikea CA, some electrical items I have checked out, tablets, mobile phones also vary wildly in price and sometimes more expensive in Canada.
Grocery shopping seems to be hit and miss, would like to think overall cheaper in Toronto but need to investigate this further. Initial comparisons are odd as due to the larger packaging on offer in Canada. Talking to friends and colleagues from Toronto all assure me general cost of living far cheaper than Oz.
Also products made abroad seem to be priced higher even though they are made closer to Canada than Australia.
Car insurance more expensive and unsure how long it would take to come down to an acceptable level.
Taxation from chatting to colleagues is also one of there bug bears.

Taxes on housing seems to be quite excessive and varies depending on the suburb you live in. Also maintenance fees for Condos vary wildly
Healthcare in Australia is rated very highly but you do need to take out private cover or are penalised by extra taxation, which is not a factor in Canada. From what I can gather healthcare in Canada is good, but is not great and can be a nightmare if you need a major issue dealt with ie time consuming to the point of death might occur before an operation.
Prescription's also seem to be a bug bear.

But the job market in Toronto does appear to be lot stronger than Melbourne, looking at the the number of positions advertised, even based on the internal roles advertised in my company.

How do you feel about retirement in Canada?

I am not trying to be negative, just trying to weigh up my options as it is a big move and would be tied to my company for around 3 - 5 years, working visa and then potential sponsored PR, unless I go the route of paying for PR myself.

not2old

stay in OZ

Suggest that you read & follow the treads by another Brit expat [pine cone] currently in OZ

http://britishexpats.com/forum/searc...archid=9014028

haggis88

Purely financial reasons = Don't move

Although this doesn't seem to be your only motivation

I don't recall seeing what your actual job title or area is...perhaps 90k is a low salary in T.ON for the position

I've toyed with the idea of moving out that way for a job too, as my company has a tonne of openings there too, but i don't think i'd be in any better of a position than moving back to the UK to work so haven't explored it too much

evets

Thanks, but the link does not work:
Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

I have read a lot of pine cone posts and agree with a lot of what she has posted.

evets

Thanks, no not my only motivation. Just weighing up my options and future opportunities. I work for a software company providing technical support. Since I have not been on the lookout for work for a number of years, I now note how much the job market has changed. Looking at roles advertised in and around Toronto, it appears to be the going rate or slightly above average.

Been watching the job market in Melbourne for a number of months now, since I was made aware of the pending redundancy and watching a local forum. The job market is pretty competitive here, but think that can apply worldwide these days. Oz is a high cost centre and see that a lot of people are finding it tough finding work across Australia. It has crossed my mind if moving back to the UK would be an option, since I hear the job market in London is pretty good these days.

Karen BC

You might be comparing apples with oranges. Toronto is one of Canada's largest, and more expensive, cities and depending upon which suburb or bedroom community you are considering, costs would vary widely.
Generally speaking, Australia is considered more expensive than Canada; I have heard this first-hand from my friends who have visited their adult children living there. I'm not sure direct comparisons with Ikea merchandise is a fair consideration, particularly given the fluctuating dollar.
Our health care has its challenges but I have lived many years in the UK and the US as well as Canada and would recommend our services here without reservation.
Any chance of visiting first to get a real feel for the area? Lots of beautiful places in ON beside TO, including Ottawa. I'm on the West coast, where it doesn't get any better!

Snowy560

Good post Karen!

I went to Ottawa recently and enjoyed it. I also went to Toronto last year and loved it! I imagined myself living in both places (mind you, it's easy to do that when you are somewhere for just a few days).

The West Coast is great, even if it does rain a lot in Vancouver. And I agree: Australia is expensive. However, I tend to think most new places are until you find your way around and stop constantly comparing!

S

Karen BC

Snowy560, have relocated a few times, that is soooo true! Always best to get your bearings with someone who knows the area if possible.

Snowy560

I think we all go through the "it costs this much in Canada which is this much in Aus/UK/wherever ..." then eventually you stop doing that (and only do it when you go back to the place you originally came from!).

S

dasalcedo

My wife and I are also in the same situation. We have to decide whether to stay here in OZ or make the move to Canada.

We just got the Citizenship and we also are Permanent Residents of Canada.

We stayed in Toronto at my brother's place and we loved it. Living here in Adelaide has made us to look around Toronto in places like Hamilton or Waterloo. We loved Waterloo, such a beautiful town.

I also agree about the cost comparison: some things are cheaper in Canada, some not, at the end you get tired of making comparisons and you just go with what you desire.

My wife is a physiotherapist ans she is travelling next July to Toronto to sit the theory examination. Our move will basically depends on the success my wife has with the Alliance examinations in order for her to work there.

I work as an IT guy at a private school here in Adelaide. I have a profound hearing loss which makes my situation hard in order to find employment. I had to (and still do in a lesser extent for saving purposes) cleaning jobs for long time as I could not find a job.

In my time in Toronto, I realized that there is a lot of support for people with disabilities. Actually I got the details of my counselor over there who is going to help me to find a job once we decide to settle.

Former Lancastrian

How long have you been absent from Canada i.e. living in Oz? If more than 3 years then then you might not have a choice if you are both PR's of Canada.

Siouxie

http://britishexpats.com/forum/canad.../#post11783445

They did their landing in December 2015

evets

Thanks Karen and do fully agree. Some colleagues I have spoken to in my office who relocated from Toronto to Melbourne, were shocked at some of the prices here ie supermarket, popping out for lunch or dinner.
I put the example of Ikea, as it is a global brand, to get an idea of comparative pricing as it should/would be a good idea of local pricing based on what is on offer in Australia. Kinda along the same lines as the big mac index on The Economist.

I think healthcare in Australia also has it challenges, one being the high cost of private healthcare which is pretty much mandatory after 30, if you do not have have it then you are also taxed higher. The upside of having it, you do get access to private healthcare but the need to read the small print to see what you are covered for is very important, as just recently I read a story about a woman who had cancer and found her policy covered none of it.

I have spent a little time in Canada, 4 weeks Ottawa and 2 weeks Banff. Both of my stays I really enjoyed, very beautiful country and found Canadians very friendly, not sure of being Scottish helped as the majority of Canadians have some Scottish history. I only briefly drove through Toronto on my way to Niagara Falls and got a little scared how many lanes the freeway had.

I have asked my manager about a trip to Toronto, which was turned down. My colleague who is just off Vancouver Island, also says come to Vancouver but that is not an option. The options I had were Toronto(well Mississauga), Ottawa or Colorado Springs(US). I felt Ottawa was not right for me, if I had a family then it may have been different and also some social activities I do are not really well catered for in Ottawa.
And I did not fancy the US, even though the CoL in Colorado Springs and generally for the US is far cheaper. Aswell as other reasons.

evets

Indeed Snowy, I have stopped comparing prices in Australia now, somewhat, back to what I paid in the UK. I now do that when I go back to the UK and think how much cheaper things are and how much more choice you have

evets

I feel for you Dasalcedo, from what I understand the job market for IT in Adelaide is not great, and after spending months on the whirlpool forum lots of people thinking about relocating to Melbourne or Sydney. Believe it is the same for the Gold Coast, Brisbane and Perth(now the mining boom is over).
The job market in Melbourne is very tough and competitive at the moment, so many companies offshored now due to the high costs of labour here.

For me, my decision is not based on a dislike of living in Australia but based on having a job and using that time to upskill as found now in a very niche role, which there is not much demand for. I could stay and hope for the best, but the lack of responses to job applications and roles that I could/can apply for is not promising. If the worst came to the worst, I would have to move back to the UK.

Comparing the job market of Toronto and GTA, there are way more varied roles available in comparison to Melbourne.

Good luck with your decision and hope your wife passes her test.

BTW where are you originally from since it sounds like you a neither from Australia or Canada.