Walsh Clan

Hi guys,

Sorry to ask another question but you have all been so helpful. Thank you.

My 11 year old daughter hasn't any french and I wanted to send her on a course this summer but can't seem to find one in the locality on the internet.

Will she struggle in school without it? I have started to teach her the basics, my french wouldn't be too bad, but I'd like to make it as easy as possible for her in school, one less worry for her.

Thanks..

christmasoompa

Which province are you going to, and will she be going to a French immersion school?

Walsh Clan

We are going to Ontario and she will be going to a Catholic school. Can I ask what a french immersion school looks like? I feel a little stupid but I thought french immersion was an "outside of school hours" programme!

Partially discharged

I see from your profile that you are going to Barrie which is not a hotbed of french speakers. If you were moving to Ottawa (especially the east end), the part of Ontario east of Ottawa, or northern Ontario (Timmins, Sudbury) then french may come in handy on a day to day basis.

French immersion is where the school day is primarily done in french for naturally english speaking children (usually the parents have little to no french capability). My children are in it and they started at the kindergarten level. After about 1 year they were beyond me and now are pretty well bi-lingual. After about age 11 the french/english instruction starts to get closer to 50/50.

rich07

We are in Ottawa, our daughter was 12 when we got here. She is in regular junior high school, where they have french lessons every day. She had done a little French in the UK, but has found european french to be different from Canadian, not to mention the hand gestures that they to learn. She is getting on well with the subject now and seems to well above average in her year.

French immersion is basically where they do some or all of their lessons in French. We considered it, but thought the stress of moving may unsettle our daughter enough without the added complication of changing the language as well. We felt learning in a different language may affect her grades.

Good luck with the move

dbd33

Er, do explain.

rich07

At my daughters school at least they are taught hand gestures for certain words, much like one would use with a young child. I.e. Hand held in as if holding a cup and rotating to mean want a drink. Nothing rude I am assuming.

mardyarse

My friend lives in London, Ont and I think your school system is different than Ottawas. In Ottawa we have 4 school boards, French Catholic, French Public, English Catholic, English Public. There is immersion (all subjects in French notes home to parents in English) and then the applied where everything is in English but statutory one hour French lesson per day.

You can join French immersion at Grade 4 or Grade 7 depending on the school. Most schools offer English and French immersion in the same building, just different parts of the school are segregated. So theory being if your child really struggles and doesn't enjoy it then you could take them out of French immersion and put them in applied but they stay at the same school, same friends, same bus etc.,

However, the problem you will have is if you find a French immersion school in Barrie if your child doesn't adapt you have to change schools which might be too much on top of the big move.

I was told by son's Grade 3 teacher when we first moved over theres 4 reasons why English speaking parents choose French immersion for their kids:

1. To speak another language (arguable whether the French taught in Canada is of any use in France and whether it should be Spanish with US on doorstep and emerging South American markets).
2. one or two parents speak French at home.
3. To get a well paid job with the government or City (really applies to bi lingual Ottawa).
4. To keep them away from the "riff raff" in her words! She said its a form of streaming. Much more self motivated, disciplined, more intellectual kids in French Immersion.

We chose to keep them in applied and its had its problems. My daughter is now in Grade 9 in second trimester in High School and loves the fact she's dropped French in her subjects now.

So probably way more info than you requested, but if it doesn't help you it'll help someone else with the same dilemma. Good luck with the move

Partially discharged

This is a bit of a thread drift, but the 4 school board thing results in a lot of school buses whizzing through neighbourhoods half empty.

French immersion at the grade 4 or 7 level is much harder to ramp up, imho. The intensive french 'immersion' for the kids who start at the kindergarten level is from kindergarten to about grade 5 and then it tends to get reduced.

Some schools in Ottawa are either totally french immersion or no french immersion..meaning you may not end up having french immersion as an option at the closest school.

When our children were 5 and 9 we went to Paris and they had no problem being understood quite easily...I believe that the french that is taught is closer to Parisian than Quebecoise....the street level french that you hear in parts of gatineau is generally not taught in the french immersion system.

Believe me, your 4th point is very prevalent and many parents trumpet their childrens ability to learn french in a rather snobbish manner.

dbd33

My children attended French language schools in and around Toronto, not immersion schools but the following likely still applies:

- the French taught was that of France. There was a stigma attached to speaking like a Canadian and especially to speaking in the manner of a franco-Ontarian. "Twenty-Five rabbits", the children were obliged to say as a test.

- the one who is fluent in Spanish attributes her ease in mastering the language to first speaking French. I hear the third is usually easier than the second so I don't see attending a French school as being a handicap in that regard.

- one of the kids has a guvmint job for the summer, French was an advantage in gaining the position even though it's in BC. French is not just valuable in Ottawa.

That said, I can't see that French is of much use in Barrie. I'm surprised it's offered there but then I'm mildly surprised that any education is thought useful in Barrie.

iaink

One would hope the parent have aspirations for their kids to not stay in Barrie for ever....

Spanish and French both latin based languages, hence why French makes Spanish easier... Spanish potentially going to be more useful in the future economy?

My kids started in JK doing "extended" french in the catholic board.

Now #1 is approaching grade 4 where the public school immersion program begins they will be transfering boards in the fall. That particular school runs a "French Camp" over the summer for a week or two in order to help kids ease into the French thing, and I believe it ramps up slowly in practice once in school as many of the kids will have no or limited exposure to French going in. Not sure what the non immersion schools have to comply with in terms of "Core French", I suspect there is no avoiding it though, but dont know when they start.

In the "extended" French program (known locally as immersion even if its not) half the days subjects are in French, half in English. I am quite impressed with the results, at 8 she is better at french than I remember being when I did my O level, but shes come on in leaps and bounds in the last 6 months i think, grades 1 &2 were not particularly french intensive. Overall I think it a good way to learn, but clearly it wont suit every child.


Do you need french to live in Ontario, no, absolutely not. Is it good to have in order to keep future options open, yes.

Walsh Clan

Thanks everyone, great responses and very helpful! She currently learns Irish and is very quick to pick up sounds (not an easy language to learn especially when it's not spoken at home) and she is used to learning other subjects through Irish, so this may help too.

Barrie's just a place, bricks and mortar won't make me stay, scenery won't make me stay, but people will keep me every time, it's normally the people that make or break a place.

Try living in Cobh, where we are, it's right beside where Irish Steel was and where the Naval Base is. Is it beautiful, in ways yes, is is historical, interesting, colourful, filled with magnificent cruise liners in the summer, yes, yes, yes but it's the people that kill it. Nuff said... Sorry if you're reading this and take offence, none meant, just the way I feel!

MikeUK

Working for a company whose origins are based in Montreal, but watching the company become more and more anglophone..
I'm being to doubt if French is worth the effort (unless it's a steping stone to Spanish) if you plan on living in North America.

el_richo

Chinese languages would be more beneficial on the west coast in many industries than French.

Alan2005

What? like the flogging of real estate to rich chinese idiots industry.