It's not just me who believes Toronto is a relatively safe city. The point gets reiterated every time I have British friends to stay. They're amazed for instance that the underground shopping centres and food courts are left open at night for people to wander around, without chairs and tables having to be chained down. They're similarly surprised at shop fronts without bars or grilles.

I had a British friend staying with me when the Blue Jays won the World Series (for the second time) about ten years ago and thousands of people spilled into the streets for almost three days of whooping, celebrating, honking car horns etc. On the night there were streets completely clogged with loud, hysterical people. It could have been a bit of a nightmare. Yet my friend could not believe how good-natured it all was, how little-alcohol soaked, how low the police presence was etc.

I had British business colleagues visiting last week from London and again they ranted and raved about how clean and safe the city felt and how helpful people are.

And in comparison to the extremely well-organised burglar racket in London, it's primitive here by comparison. (That's not the case in Vancouver where it's a serious problem). I know people who really DO leave their doors unlocked (but at least they do look guilty when they admit.)

But I think the psychological difference is that in Toronto's reasonably safe areas, whuch is still most of the city, people aren't afraid of one another. There's still that basic civic trust and people are trying hard in that earnest and friendly Canadian way to keep that going. I sorry to say that's disappeared in many parts of the UK.

That said I'm writing on a day when the body of an abducted little girl has been found in the woods. It's a big city of 4 million people. Shocking crimes do happen and seem to be happenning with more frequency.

As I said in my original post as well, this isn't clean-cut central, it's a complicated multicultural, high pressure city with some crime problems. There's quite a bit of car thievery (breaking and entering cars etc.) I bike ride and bicycle theft is extremely well-organised and a serious problem. I've had my bike vandalised dozens of times too. But gangs are just something I read about in the paper and seems to happen in areas of the city that are almost suburbs.

Probably the most visible problem is homelessness, a blight on this city since huge government cuts to shelters, public housing and mental health in the early 1990s. This fuels drugs, street prostitution etc. Again, I don't mean to put a positive gloss on the problem but most of that activity takes place in identifiable areas of the city with big rooming houses (such as Parkdale and Sherbourne) I find these people, even in those areas mostly bother one another and for the rest of us, most people panhandling in the streets are amazingly polite about it (as if they've taken some Canadian PR course).

In comparison to the problems you describe in Leeds though Seamonsta, I really think you'd find the crime situation much better here.

Burglary and car theft is a problem throughout the developed world, wherever people have stuff worth stealing! It's not the sort of thing I worry about personally. If your car gets stolen it's hardly the end of the world. The insurance pays out and you buy another one.
Violence is the thing that alarms me, and Britain seems to be incredibly violent!
Recently one of my friends was thrown to the floor in Leeds by some nutter trying to knick her phone! when a passer-by tried to intervene, this psychopath claimed my friend was his girlfriend and that they should mind their own effing business. Fortunately they DIDN'T mind their own business and the offender was chased off. This sort of violence seems to be very common nowadays in Britain. Like I said, I feel generally unsafe walking the streets most of the time.

There is also another dimension to the whole petty criminality issue. I've lost track of the number of times people have made abusive remarks towards me for no reason, for instance just walking down the street. I thought perhaps it was just me but apparently not! Apparently everyone gets it! If you approach a gang of teenagers it's almost a certainty that you'll have to put up with some abusive comment or other. Just disgusting.

So Manchester is not a city ?

Is Liverpool not a city either mickyJ in your book ?


If someone asks me whats it like to live in Victoria compared to Liverpool, then I will tell them that I feel a lot safer walking about there at night than Liverpool.

Or is Victoria not a big enough place to be considered as a city neither.

2,585,800 people live in Greater Manchester which incorporates the 8 boroughs of Wigan, Bury, Trafford, Stockport, Oldham, Tameside, Rochdale, and Bolton.
Also the two cities of Salford and Manchester.

For the record, Stockport is the biggest town in Europe not classified as a city.

So all in all you are talking complete bollocks mickj.

Lee2, I know you just mentioned Manchester as a fairly typical example of a British City, because, in fact it is.

Seems like we have a Troll here from the USA forum, with no knowledge of living in Toronto or canada. Anyway for those here in canada, what am saying is, you don't get Manchester mentioned on the same scale as those places i listed there above.

Seems like you created a monster here after all, seamonsta

I think he's a troll.

Manchester indeed is very large. The urban core is something like 400,000 however if you include the dozens of suburbs and satelite towns such as Prestwich, Ashton etc. it's well over 1 million. It's only the same as TO including Mississauga etc.

As for London. The centre of London is extremely heavily policed due to the millions of tourists. There are many parts of London away from luxurious Kensington & Chelsea that are downright dangerous. No-one ever sees these parts. Peckham for instance is pretty terrifying!

Call me a troll again and I will ban you.

You have been warned by me now.

All I can say is. I've been around quite a bit, even staggered around New York drunk, and I've never felt half as worried as I do walking around parts of the UK.

I felt like that when I walked around Boston (first city I went to in North America) which is quite bizarre really consider my neurotic grandmother comments "Becareful not to get robbed" before I left.

How does that work, is that just me or seamonsta as well? You come into a room where you have no connection with, tell me am talking bollocks, and threaten to ban me for caling you something.

So its OK for you to tell me am talking bollocks, even though my post was not directed towards you, don't abuse your new found power. If you don't agree with my posts, ignore them, and let the Canadian residents make up there minds about my advice of this country.

Seamonsta....Where do you expect any advice about living in canada coming? I don't know about you, but i'll rather hear it from people living in the country am planning to move to. That way, i get to hear about things first hand, and not just some perception. That is like me trying to talk about BC, when i live in Ontario.

That's exactly how it works.

I better inform Paul the owner of this site then, and Ray the moderator of the canada forum. I thought people were banned for making racist remarks, foul language etc etc

Personal vendetta seems to have come into it

Report whatever you want mickj. I am tired of you calling me a troll when I am posting on a board for which I am a fully trusted and paid up subscriber.
Now quit.

Good day.

I respect the fact that you are a paid member, but why are you targeting my post and telling me am talking bollocks, am tired of that too.

I come into this room and pass my experiences of living in canada to people that are thinking of coming here, that's all. I can compare London To Toronto. Toronto is where i lived before we moved to where we are now.

Most people post here without directing abuses at people. I have got no bad feelings about anyone here. Surely no one would want to be fired from work for differences in opinion that has nothing to do with a certain department.

Am easy going, and i don't go round looking for trouble, and i expect the same.

Thanks