Crime rates
 

Hi all,

Just a quick question yet again !! Having recieved a pm by a fellow member was just wondering about crime rates in Saskatoon , Yes we are realistic and know crime is everywhere but what is the crime like in Canada ?? Are looking at either Saskatoon or Calgary area and was a little alarmed that crime seems a big issue in Saskatoon is this the case ??

Just want a place that feels safer to live in as everyone knows in the UK at the moment knife and drugs crime is massive just feel like locking our children up and never letting them out of our sight which is no good for them but feel thats the only way to protect them from the outside world.

Having looked into Canada so much it seems to be a lot safer place to bring children up but now im not to sure !!

Any info greatly appreciated.

Regards
Debbie x

Re: Crime rates
 

Hi Debbie,

I understand exactly what you mean regarding fear of crime here in the UK. I initially thought the same as you, and felt that Canada could have been a safer place to bring up my children too, but after tons of research and looking into destinations in more detail, this unfortunately isn't the case.

Personally, I feel Canada or anywhere in the world for that matter is quite similar to the UK. Canada is so vast, it seems to give us an illusion that our family and children will be safe, but the crime rates are just the same.

For us, this wasn't the main reason for not moving over though. The other reasons were our personal outlook of the UK/Europe and feelings for what we have here.

We're looking into buying a second home in Cornwall now, and hopefully later will follow our dream and move to Italy when the children have finished school.

Good luck with your decision, I know how difficult it can be.

Take care :)

Re: Crime rates
 

I think you need to look at the sorts of crimes committed in Canada, not just the numbers. For example, there are a lot of gangs in Canada but their victims are (normally - unless you get in their way) members of rival gangs.

The same with murders. Winnipeg was the murder capital in 2005, then Edmonton in 2006, and last year it was Toronto. However I do believe that most of the murders committed were either gang-related or inter-family / racial (ie the First Nation people killing their own family / friends through (probably drink-fuelled) arguments).

Anyone please feel free to contradict me on this, but it was certainly my understanding after talking to some Canadians and looking on the internet (for the same reasons as you - we want a safe place for our children).

I'd say you'd probably be safer in a 'nice area' in Canada than in England, because it's easier to afford to live in nicer areas in Canada because houses are cheaper (except in BC or AB).

Safety was certainly one of our arguments for emigrating, but it shouldn't be the only one. Team it with things like: more affordable housing, 'proper' seasons (ie a real White Xmas!), beautiful scenery, more to do (outdoor activities etc - even in winter), friendlier people (in our experience anyway), overall better quality of life (mainly because you're not spending every penny on the basics like a roof over your head), - oh and the fact that the Canadians don't follow George Bush round like a puppy dog! - and it certainly does rank above the UK in our opinion :)

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Anita :thumbup:

Re: Crime rates
 

Thanks for your replies,

Anita our needs and wants are very similar to yours , A better standard of living and the doors it could open for our children we are very realistic and know crime is everywhere , Knife crime in the Uk is so out of control and daily we see innocent young people getting killed for no apparent reason ,sport is very much a part of our lives and we know Canada is very keen on family and sports . We just know we will kick ourselves if we dont follow our dreams just seems like people forget what the uk is really like and paint an even worse picture of Canada .

Thanks again

Debbie

Re: Crime rates
 

You will find most of the countries where Brits emigrate to far safer than the UK thats for sure, exception being USA but then again you can carefully choose the community you live in there. Sure these other countries have their own crimes and problems but the UK`s problem seems to be something far more serious and very disturbing and that can be contributed to many factors. The crimes committed there are just not committed for financial gain but with a genuine desire to hurt and punish their chosen victim. These crimes are born out of of a frustration against UK society in general and are triggered by the cost of living, too large a population, traffic chaos, lack of opportunities for young people etc and will only get worse with the current economic downturn. This all started back in the 80`s with road rage and people carrying baseball bats in their cars, now this has been upgraded to people carrying knives and as seen they are fully willing to use them in any given moment. What is most disturbing is that you can actually be murdered for giving somebody a bad look, knocking them off their bike, or pushing in front of them in the supermarket (These last two examples are true facts as most Brits will be aware as they were on the news and in the newspapers)
On the one hand you have the newspapers frightening people to death with these crimes, because that is what sells newspapers and then you the authorities saying that knife crime has fallen etc so not as to panic the population. All this is a load of crap because you will never know the real figures anyway. Also nobody wants to address the real problem which is curing societies social ills and really finding the cure to this problem. The reason for this as always is money, as this would require a huge investment which no government would be willing to do.

Re: Crime rates
 

this is exactly the problem and it getting worse. the kids know that the police can't do anything about them!! i sawa kid the other day just throw his rubbish on the floor it seems like some people just don't give a crap about the country anymore. and if you challenge them then god knows what will happen. it makes me sooooo mad. :curse:

Re: Crime rates
 

i am not looking at canada through rose coloured glasses but it can't be any worse than here. And such things as mention before a white xmas, seasons, decent summers. The 6 wks hols for the kids were complete rubbish. happy kids and a happy hubbie make a happy mom and wife. :thumbsup:

Re: Crime rates
 

If you challenge them there is a good chance that you will either be stabbed or beaten to death, what I just said may sound exaggerated but in this day and age it is a reality. A frightening statistic.

Re: Crime rates
 

no its definately no exaggerated & i don't want my kids growing up thinking this is the normal way to act.

Re: Crime rates
 

Oh, ffs. The crime rates in similar areas of the US and Canada are similar. Anacostia = Jane/Finch, rural Vermont = rural Ontario. If you go somewhere in either country with natives or to an inner city with poverty there will be a lot of crime. It's slightly different crime from the UK as here everyone who has a whim to have a gun can have one; there's less need to use knives. I suggest though that there are more bloodthirsty gangs here; Crips, Bloods, Tamil Tigers, those tattoed Mexicans who behead people, Hell's Angels, Yardies.

As mentioned above the advantage for immigrants from the UK is that they may be able to buy into a better area than they could at home (assuming high property values in the UK and a good exchange rate). The result is less perceived crime but the same could be done in the UK if only the emigrant had more money.

Re: Crime rates
 

If someone were to litter here they'd immediate be shot by vigilantes.

Re: Crime rates
 

far safer? Never let the facts get in the way of a good old UK's-gone-to-the-dogs rant.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...lts-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...pes-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ies-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...fts-per-capita

Re: Crime rates
 

Inner cities nearly everywhere have serious crime that is a fact so nothing new there. Also the only reason people carry knives in the UK is that guns are not so readily available, if they were there would be a gun problem in the UK instead of a knife one. The gangs that you mention are a different thing altogether its a turf war, by and large stay well away from their turf then you shouldn`t be a victim of crime. The point being that the UK has a particular crime problem unique to the UK than runs a lot deeper and the scars are there for all to see.

As for the immigrant having more money to live somewhere better in the UK! Well this is highly unlikely as the type of immigration that the UK has are normally immigrants from third world countries that are not going to be able to choose where they live which is why they end up in shit areas full of crime and poverty.

Re: Crime rates
 

I'm sorry I failed to articulate that clearly.


The Eaton Centre, a large shopping mall in downtown Toronto is someone's turf. Hence the shooting of bystanders right outside. The theatre district is someone else's turf, hence the many shootings there. Farmland tends not to be anyone's turf so, if you stay away from buildings, you'll be fine.

Besides the lack of guns, how is it unique?

Most immigrants to Canada are from third world countries and are not able to choose where they live which is why they end up in shit areas full of crime and poverty, but I wasn't taking about them. I was talking about you, the typical emigrant from the UK.

Re: Crime rates
 

[QUOTE=dbd33;6764912]Oh, ffs. The crime rates in similar areas of the US and Canada are similar. Anacostia = Jane/Finch, rural Vermont = rural Ontario. If you go somewhere in either country with natives or to an inner city with poverty there will be a lot of crime. It's slightly different crime from the UK as here everyone who has a whim to have a gun can have one; there's less need to use knives. I suggest though that there are more bloodthirsty gangs here; Crips, Bloods, Tamil Tigers, those tattoed Mexicans who behead people, Hell's Angels, Yardies.

Comparing crime levels between rural Vermont and rural Ontario I find that puzzling becuase one has a population of 600.000 approx and the other 12.000.000 approx better to compare the Ontario example to say California or New York

Re: Crime rates
 

"Rural" means "in the country" or "not in the city". No State or Province has a rural population of 12,000,000 as, if it did, it wouldn't be rural.

Crime comparisons are notorious difficult as definitions of crimes and cultural inclinations as regards reporting differ, nonetheless you have to start with areas of similar population density, try Rutland VT vs. Owen Sound ON.

There is no value in a comparison of complete State to complete Province as within States and Provinces the crime rates vary enormously; similarly one might compare crime in London and Glasgow but not London and the Orkneys.

Re: Crime rates
 

The Eaton Centre, a large shopping mall in downtown Toronto is someone's turf. Hence the shooting of bystanders right outside. The theatre district is someone else's turf, hence the many shootings there. Farmland tends not to be anyone's turf so, if you stay away from buildings, you'll be fine.

When a turf war splashes over into areas where the general public frequent then there is very little that can be done, much like terrorists that plant bombs, gunmen that go on rampages etc Little can be done to limit these events. These are tragedies that the authorities have little power to control.

Besides the lack of guns, how is it unique?
Mentioned that on a previous post today

Most immigrants to Canada are from third world countries and are not able to choose where they live which is why they end up in shit areas full of crime and poverty, but I wasn't taking about them. I was talking about you, the typical emigrant from the UK.[/QUOTE]

The typical immigrant from the UK most definitely in general (at the moment not so well given the economic downturn in the UK) can enjoy a better lifestyle in either USA or Canada given that property prices are a lot more economical there.

Re: Crime rates
 

But rural crime nearly everywhere is not particularly high whether it be Uk, Canada, USA etc (albeit there are going to be exceptions to this rule) so there should be no need for you to mention this. When people refer to crime in a country they are talking about cities and built up areas etc not the tranquility of rural living.

Re: Crime rates
 

I've reread your posts but don't see it. You say some crimes in the UK are commited without financial motive, well I know of a case here of someone being shot dead in what the police think was a gang initiation, there was no other apparent motive. No money involved. I suggest that crimes without financial motive happen everywhere, what about the crime passionel?

You then say that crime in the UK will get worse with the economic downturn, that suggests that financial motivation is a factor, well people rob banks here too.

Again, crime's a problem in the UK and in many other places, what's unique about the UK?

Re: Crime rates
 

It was suggested upthread that it would be safer for an emigrant to live anywhere but the US (of the popular countries for emigration). Since most people in the US live rurally or in small towns and you say that rural life is safer that would seem to lay the canard of the US being particularly dangerous to rest.

I think that when people refer to crime rates for a country they can reasonably be thought to refer to the whole country; not the worst street corner in that country.

Re: Crime rates
 

The gang killing that you mention has no bearing on financial or non financial reasons it is exactly as you said a believed initiation. what i said on my previous post is that crimes are now committed in the UK without any real motive and this is what Brits find most disturbing. Somebody can break into your home and then after the robbery decides they now want to kill you. Another case about the man recently that Brits will know of, that went out of his house to challenge a bunch of yobs that were making a noise in his street only to be kicked to death... These are the crimes that are very disturbing, crimes that the UK just did not have so much of in the past, kids carrying knives into schools and now actually using them to kill other kids. The point being these crimes are spontaneous and quite often unplanned and that is what is so disturbing.

The economic downturn doesn`t just mean people will have less money but all the other social problems that will go with it. Frustrations, stress and lack of hope all of which triggers for dangerous behaviour.

The huge problem is that the UK is a fraction of the size of Canada and has a population of 60 plus million whereas Canada has 30 plus million these figures and lack of space in the UK are other significant factors as well.

Re: Crime rates
 

A lot of Americans may indeed live in rural areas but a large amount also live in urban areas too. I said that if you are going to live in the USA then you need to choose your community carefully. This community could include either urban or rural areas. It is up to the potential immigrant to do their homework on these areas and choose the best for themselves. Some people will be more fussed than others concerning crime and some less.

Re: Crime rates
 

I guess that was me :).

I read a claim recently that Saskatoon is one of the ten most dangerous cities in North America; but in a decade here between me and my girlfriend, our entire experience of crime has been a broken car window, one of our neighbours having their bike stolen, and someone spray-painting graffiti on a sign down the road... far less than I experienced in the UK. Most of the serious crime is concentrated in a few areas, particularly the murders; which largely seem to be drunk people stabbing each other to death.

Re: Crime rates
 

You forget that most of the population of Canada lives along the US border between Quebec and Detroit; the population density in urban Canada is the same as in urban Europe.

Re: Crime rates
 

The same is true of Canada and, indeed, the UK. It may be that an individual can afford to avoid crime in one country and not another due to shifts in property values and exchange rates but the problem of crime doesn't go away.

Re: Crime rates
 

That'll be a lot better than the UK then.

Re: Crime rates
 

I know that is where the majority of Canadians live but they still have the option of being near open space if they really want to. In the UK space is limited go to far and you will fall into the sea.:thumbsup:

Re: Crime rates
 

That seems to be pretty similar, really; an underclass who get drunk and violent because they have nothing much better to do.

But the problem seems to be far more localised to specific areas of the city here, whereas in most parts of the UK where I lived you could run into some violent drunk late at night pretty much anywhere. Only the most expensive areas were largely violence-free, and then you had to deal with people coming from outside the area to burgle your house because they thought you were rich.

Re: Crime rates
 

Just a few weeks ago in our little corner of Ontario we had a five year old girl murdered because allegedly her druggie parents owed the supplier some cash.

There really isn't anything all that different over here. As has already been stated Canada just presents some good opportunities if you bring a large wad of cash over or maybe if you happen to move from the far east or if it just happens to be the right move for you as an individual.

There's no magical and instant wonderful quality of life here along with crime free streets to walk along. Oh, and there's nothing especially wonderful for kiddies here either that means that they will be set up for life. You know, it's just a country. Some have a great time here, some don't and Canadians don't seem to see it as paradise.

Re: Crime rates
 

I have noticed this year that shootings/murders have been more frequent in areas that I go to which scares me in Toronto.

Yesterday's shooting at Keele/Eglinton, not an area I go to that much as we would go on the Keele bus north to York Lanes for the tennis but it scared me reading to me right in the middle of the afternoon at a bus stop.

Somebody was shot or stabbed at on the corner of Bloor/Lansdowne

Dufferin Mall, Yorkdale, the list goes on.

Before it used to be confined to certain areas, not it is spreading out.

I was in a middle of a shooting in Argentina in April and I still can't relax especially with loud noises, it scares the hell out of me.

Re: Crime rates
 

In England there's a right to roam which allows access to the countryside, there's no equivalent in Canada so I don't know that the majority of people living in Canada actually have greater access to open space than the majority of Britons. I walk the dog in the country on weekends but I'd do that if I lived in Kilburn.

I concede that someone who doesn't have to work could have a lot more open space in Canada; Northern Ontario, for example, is empty.

Re: Crime rates
 

This is why I'm happier living in Saskatoon than Toronto, even though the crime rate here is supposedly worse...

Re: Crime rates
 

The pricier areas will have the drunks driving home... I don't worry about crime here (didn't in the UK either) but I am appalled at how socially acceptable it is to drive drunk. Canadian friends won't usually go out to the pub and then drive home, but to them it's acceptable to go for a meal, couple of bottles of wine and then drive home. I've heard "it's okay, the food will soak up the alcohol" from health professionals who really should know better.

Re: Crime rates
 

Difference being that if Canada`s population expands as expected with future immigration levels then there is the space to absorb these people. Infrastructure may need to be improved in more rural areas to absorb these people but the space is there. Whereas in the UK well, there isn`t too much space left to be absorbed. It is a simple equation of space divided by people and in the UK it just doesn`t go.

Re: Crime rates
 

Immigrants to Canada by and large live in Toronto. Are you thinking that Toronto will spread out until it reaches Lake Simcoe, Lake Erie and the Quebec border? Otherwise, is there a scheme to displace immigrants to, say, the Yukon?

Again the problem's not so different from the UK, where south-east is teeming with people, the highlands of Scotland are less so, but few immigrants take up crofting. The popular areas end up with high population density and high crime rates while the empty bits stay empty.

Re: Crime rates
 

Again there is no solution to the UK problem as the population is at breaking point. Not only is the south east teeming with people but so are the Midlands and greater Manchester areas as well etc and as the population increases much of these areas in terms of population density will just merge into one another, leaving less space little by little. Only last night on the news the government is worried that the population of the UK could surpass 70 million in the forseeable future. Places like the highlands etc will always just remain empty as there is nothing there for large populations. Canada is very different though, towns can still grow into cities, new towns can be born etc.. Forget Yukon look at the space Canada has to absorb people into its central and western areas all still near the US border. The example you give of Toronto growing is a bad example, for the simple reason it doesn`t need to grow because there are plenty of other places for people to effectively move to in Canada. The boom in Alberta and BC prime examples of where people are needed, people only go to the likes of Toronto because it is the biggest city and therefore acts like a magnet. If people move to the GTA or GVA and complain about population density well there are plenty of other parts of Canada that they can move to and find jobs as well.

The example you gave of the population density being comparable between the Ontario/Quebec region to Europe is a very poor comparison for the simple reason the land mass of the southern ontario/Quebec corridor is probably the same size as much of western Europe and even central Europe. Population of this area in canada is say 20.000.000 plus. The equivalent area in Europe well we are talking probably well 250.000.000 people ??????????? a huge difference and all occupying the same type of area.

Re: Crime rates
 

True - there are lovely rural areas in the UK (Cornwall, Lake District etc) but unless you're rich you can't afford to live in the lovely, safe little villages (that depict 'quintessential England' a la 'Midsomer Murders' and other such tv shows) so you're stuck in some dodgy suburb full of chavs and hoodies.

And I agree it can only get worse. :mad:

Re: Crime rates
 

Oops just realised that was a bad example - Midsomer Murders is about homicidal maniacs running loose in quiet little villages! :rofl: I meant the analogy purely on an aesthetic basis.

Can't think of another example of a tv show about idealistic, quaint little English villages, sorry. :o

Re: Crime rates
 

It's the same in Canada though, the "good" areas are out of reach to most Canadians. Canadians of similar education/profession couldn't afford the houses many expats live in, it's only the cashing-in on UK property that enables that.

I don't agree with the poster above that the UK is too crowded, what does that mean? There's room for plenty more. Who's the American who did the BA adverts... he said if you take Manhatten as the most densely populated area, and put the entire world population in equivalent density, they'd only fill the former Yugoslavia. So how come the UK feels crowded for you?

Re: Crime rates
 

That's precisely why house prices and living mortgage-free form one of the biggest arguments for Brits wanting to emigrate. Assuming you can sell your UK house for the price you need, obviously (which ain't easy in the current climate)... :unsure: