Oakvillian

OK, point taken.

At the end of my road is an uphill junction onto a more major road. I'm frequently grateful for the traction control in my car as I turn onto the main road, despite the snow tires!

I had a great schadenfreude moment the other day, when waiting at the bus stop near the junction, watching a guy in a 5-series BMW give up trying to turn onto the main road against a red into what would normally have been a big enough gap in traffic, because his RWD beemer on all-seasons could only get him sliding sideways rather than moving forward. The Yaris ahead of him had made the corner effortlessly

My personal view is that my driving pleasure is better served by FWD and a decent chassis than 4WD if that means buying a truck, but it's horses for courses, innit?

Lees147

Exactly i think part of the trouble is that Canadians don't really know how a manual car actually works, unlike us brits they will pass in an auto and then try manual and eventually they slowly learn 'what works' rather than 'how it works' which in turn causes them to try to 'force start' the car rather than gently getting the bite and slowly edging forwards. (if you get me)

Steve_P

Have you any idea at all how smug and arrogant that sounds?

BristolUK

I was going to say I have a 2WD but then a bicycle is only a one wheel drive.

Lees147

Is it smug/arrogant for the DVLA to not let Canadians drive manual?

MarkG

The Civic I test-drove had horrendous wheel-spin on snow with all-season tires. The Impreza not only drove better, but stopped better too; though that's probably just because it's 20% more expensive and has better brakes, rather than anything to do with the AWD and stability control gadgetry.

Oakvillian

well yes, with all-season tires it would . "All-season tires" is an infamous misnomer; they are not suitable for every season. At temperatures even slightly below zero, the rubber compound hardens up considerably, so the grip available tails off very quickly with decreasing temperatures. The Impreza undoubtedly will have got you round corners with greater panache - there's a reason it has been at the top of the rallying game for as long as it has - but any improvement in stopping power on winter roads is marginal.

In low temperatures - never mind the quantity of snow and ice, it's just as apparent on dry tarmac - the efficiency of the brakes or the number of driven wheels is neither here nor there. The deciding factor in how quickly you can stop is the friction between your tires and the road. 2WD, 4WD, whatever, it's all the same when it comes to stopping. That has nothing to do with the cost of the car or the configuration of the drivetrain, and everything to do with what boots it's wearing.

Can you tell I had an Iaink-like epiphany on the benefits of winter tires last year? Thankfully a narrow miss rather than a coming-together, but a close enough call

Atlantic Xpat

I'm with you Brother Oakvillian, I too am converted to the way of snow tires (for my 4x4 Jeep) after having to sail through a red light because there was no way in hell my all seasons were going to bring me to a halt on time.

Really though this subject is a no brainer. Buy snow tires. It makes sense. Insurance in Canada is expensive enough not to risk your NCB on a snow related accident even if you are blase about the risks to the occupants of the vehicle. Also it's not as if you are not getting use and wear out of the tires anyway. Your just investing in two sets at a time rather than sequentially.

MarkG

I didn't measure the stopping distances, so it's possible they were the same. But the Impreza stopped in a straight line with minimal fuss on an icy, snow-covered gravel road where I wouldn't even have considered taking the Civic; I tried an emergency stop on a snow-covered car park and that put me off the idea of trying its brakes anywhere else.

At the limit, yes. But even if the stopping distances were identical it's one thing to stop in a straight line with no fuss, and quite another to be sliding from side to side with the brakes juddering under the ABS at lower speeds on a less crappy surface.

Londonuck

Vancouver is very British when snow falls.

Got caught twice driving to Whistler in very heavy snow. Very scary. Not the snow, the other drivers.

Purley

I have a Hyundai Elantra. The first winter I bought a set of snow tires. I should actually have bought wheels as well because its much cheaper. Every spring and fall I have to go and spend $40 or so to get the tires changed over, whereas having the tires on wheels I could get my son to switch them for nothing.

It makes a thousand percent difference in the snow. The way the roads get around here, the next time I buy new winter tires I will get them studded. The snow tires aren't so successful on ice, which is what we have most of the time.

At the moment the side streets around here are like washboards. It thaws a bit - it freezes again. The city doesn't grade minor streets. If we are lucky they might come down here once in a few weeks after the melt gets going. One spring they didn't grade the side streets at all and people were stuck in two foot deep half frozen ruts. I couldn't get home. I live on a bay and the street the bay runs into had cars stuck all down it- up to their axles in frozen slush. I parked on the bus route and walked in.

There were such a lot of complaints that after that they usually come around once with the grader and you have to hope there aren't too many cars parked - if there are they just go round the cars and you get left with lots of ruts.

Lorna_D

I have a 94 Plymouth Voyager which in fairness has been a good van despite it's age. It has all season tyres on and manages to get me around the Beach no problem as long as I don't try the steeper hills in higher temperatures cos I don't get much traction. I have been caught in two white outs in the day and one in the night where you cannot see the white/yellow lines or the car in front etc. But, my biggest frightener was driving home after the temperature hade been +5, thawed the snow, which turned to water and ponded then the temperatures dropped the wind picked up and blew the snow over the road causing it to be like a skating rink. I drove that for about 10k into Regina Beach at 40kph being overtaken by locals I couldn't see the road, the tyres wanted to call all ways and the wind was blowing me toward the ditch and it was dark a definate learning curve.

But on a positive the council in Regina Beach clears the roads more often and to a better standard than the city.

cneldred

Yep, did that the other week. There i was thinking that some drivers were arses for driving almost in the middle of the road. No it is because they had no idea where the edge of the road was. I found out the hard way.

Re, snow days and school buses we use this website

http://www.schoolbusmonitor.com/

It certainly covers all of Ontario and think it has many others too.

Chris

dbd33

Just to make a liar of me, the road past our place had eight inches of unploughed snow on it this morning, more where it had drifted. Luckily I had front wheel drive and momentum as it's three quarters of a mile to the junction with a ploughed street. I took the contingency route after that; bigger roads, more traffic, but most of the roads had been cleared. It's snowing hard now so there'll be digging tonight.

Snave

Well, for the first two years we had a Ford Focus four-door. It suited us while we lived in central Ottawa, as the roads we were using were always cleared and salted before we got out on them. This is with "four-season" tyres. Last Autumn though we decided to get a 2005 Ford Escape, which is a 4WD SUV. It's based on the Mazda Tribute - don't you get them in the UK? It cost us $19k before tax (you have to pay tax even on pre-owned cars) and this winter it's given us so much peace of mind. We still have the Focus, but that's enjoying winter in the garage, as since moving out to the country from the city we need something we can rely on when there is snow, ice and slush on the road.
I think a bigger problem than not having winter tyres is the way other drivers drive. They seem to have a feeling of invincibility about them, especially when they have winter tyres. Maybe these tyres give them a false sense of security? Today in Ottawa the weather is bad, really bad. They are forecasting 15-20 cm of snow compounded with ice pellets and a further 15-20 cm tonight. There is also a fear that they are running out of salt. So we left home to come to work 15-20 minutes early, and our commute is up the 416 until Kanata, dropping off Mrs Snave on the way. The 416 has not been poughed or salted, so you can't see the white lines dividing the lanes, and you are driving in the tracks of the cars in front of you. But many cars and vans passed us at around 100k/h - we (together with several other more cautious drivers) were doing 60k/h. I really think it's the fear of being hit by another driver rather than me going off the road that worries me most.