comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
Dec 5th 2008, 3:34 pm
#16
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 701
Re: comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
If the 'coalition' falls apart in the next few weeks, will you accept that the GG did the right thing in not allowing such an unstable group to take over the country? After all, there are few things the left are better at than stabbing each other in the back (or through the ear with an ice-pick).
Coalitions are just that: temporary alignments. Far different from "Conservatives" selling their souls to "Reform" for the sake of power. The crux of the issue is that the ELECTED MAJORITY of the House have been denied access to Government. This, at a time when blue collar citizens are are asking to be heard but are now somewhat diluted in their efforts because their conventional representatives in the House are effectively "suspended". This all smacks of an autocracy in the making, if not a blond haired blue eyed dictatorship....with the blessing of a GG that should know better.
Dec 5th 2008, 3:55 pm
#17
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,830
Re: comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
In actuality, the Governor General is the Head of States representative (Queen Elizabeth II), therefore the decision was in effect that of the Queen. As much as we would like to bless politicians, decisions are made within a constitutional framework and blessings have nothing to do with it.
It seems a sound judgment to prorogue parliament, allowing the government, the party with the largest individual representation in the house, to put together an economic package for the country instead of having to waste time dealing with the in-fighting between self serving politicians. It almost seems like playground bullying, we could not get into power democratically, so lets gang up and do it.
How can a coalition work, where a party that represents only one province has veto. In effect it would turn out to be a puppet government that works, so long as it tows the Bloc line. The Bloc have said before, they are only interested in Quebec, not their country Canada. The NDP & Liberals would have to get permission from the Bloc to do anything.
If we ended up with a coalition bickering amongst themselves or never agreeing on anything because it is vetoed by the Bloc our economy would spiral and we would lose world confidence.
At the end of January if the Conservatives cannot bring parliament together then the matter should be put to another election. Let the people of Canada decide their own fate in an issue as important as this.
It does not matter who is in power, they will always be doing a poor job to some and the minority parties will disagree on principle because it was not their idea.
It seems a sound judgment to prorogue parliament, allowing the government, the party with the largest individual representation in the house, to put together an economic package for the country instead of having to waste time dealing with the in-fighting between self serving politicians. It almost seems like playground bullying, we could not get into power democratically, so lets gang up and do it.
How can a coalition work, where a party that represents only one province has veto. In effect it would turn out to be a puppet government that works, so long as it tows the Bloc line. The Bloc have said before, they are only interested in Quebec, not their country Canada. The NDP & Liberals would have to get permission from the Bloc to do anything.
If we ended up with a coalition bickering amongst themselves or never agreeing on anything because it is vetoed by the Bloc our economy would spiral and we would lose world confidence.
At the end of January if the Conservatives cannot bring parliament together then the matter should be put to another election. Let the people of Canada decide their own fate in an issue as important as this.
It does not matter who is in power, they will always be doing a poor job to some and the minority parties will disagree on principle because it was not their idea.
Dec 5th 2008, 4:01 pm
#18
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,606
Re: comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
In actuality, the Governor General is the Head of States representative (Queen Elizabeth II), therefore the decision was in effect that of the Queen. As much as we would like to bless politicians, decisions are made within a constitutional framework and blessings have nothing to do with it.
It seems a sound judgment to prorogue parliament, allowing the government, the party with the largest individual representation in the house, to put together an economic package for the country instead of having to waste time dealing with the in-fighting between self serving politicians. It almost seems like playground bullying, we could not get into power democratically, so lets gang up and do it.
How can a coalition work, where a party that represents only one province has veto. In effect it would turn out to be a puppet government that works, so long as it tows the Bloc line. The Bloc have said before, they are only interested in Quebec, not their country Canada. The NDP & Liberals would have to get permission from the Bloc to do anything.
If we ended up with a coalition bickering amongst themselves or never agreeing on anything because it is vetoed by the Bloc our economy would spiral and we would lose world confidence.
At the end of January if the Conservatives cannot bring parliament together then the matter should be put to another election. Let the people of Canada decide their own fate in an issue as important as this.
It does not matter who is in power, they will always be doing a poor job to some and the minority parties will disagree on principle because it was not their idea.
It seems a sound judgment to prorogue parliament, allowing the government, the party with the largest individual representation in the house, to put together an economic package for the country instead of having to waste time dealing with the in-fighting between self serving politicians. It almost seems like playground bullying, we could not get into power democratically, so lets gang up and do it.
How can a coalition work, where a party that represents only one province has veto. In effect it would turn out to be a puppet government that works, so long as it tows the Bloc line. The Bloc have said before, they are only interested in Quebec, not their country Canada. The NDP & Liberals would have to get permission from the Bloc to do anything.
If we ended up with a coalition bickering amongst themselves or never agreeing on anything because it is vetoed by the Bloc our economy would spiral and we would lose world confidence.
At the end of January if the Conservatives cannot bring parliament together then the matter should be put to another election. Let the people of Canada decide their own fate in an issue as important as this.
It does not matter who is in power, they will always be doing a poor job to some and the minority parties will disagree on principle because it was not their idea.
On a wholly un-related note, do you have any feel for which way AC pricing is going any time soon? I need to book a UK ticket for February. I don't know whether to do it now or wait. I don't know what AC's current hedging situation is. Any tips much appreciated.
Dec 5th 2008, 4:19 pm
#20
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
Coalitions are just that: temporary alignments. Far different from "Conservatives" selling their souls to "Reform" for the sake of power. The crux of the issue is that the ELECTED MAJORITY of the House have been denied access to Government. This, at a time when blue collar citizens are are asking to be heard but are now somewhat diluted in their efforts because their conventional representatives in the House are effectively "suspended". This all smacks of an autocracy in the making, if not a blond haired blue eyed dictatorship....with the blessing of a GG that should know better.
On the GG: I agree that she's set a very unfortunate precedent. I'm afraid she hasn't the gravitas to have done the right thing but I understand her dilemma. Harper is disgusting enough to have played anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-women cards in addition to the anti-Quebec one. Oh, and her husband's a sovereignist. Can you imagine the rabid outpourings of your prototypical Reform Albertan on that?
Dec 5th 2008, 4:30 pm
#21
RETIRED Realtor
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 2,087
Re: comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
I seem to remember, only a few weeks past, people complaining about how boring Canadian politics were. 
Dec 5th 2008, 4:47 pm
#22
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 701
Re: comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
In actuality, the Governor General is the Head of States representative (Queen Elizabeth II), therefore the decision was in effect that of the Queen. As much as we would like to bless politicians, decisions are made within a constitutional framework and blessings have nothing to do with it.
It seems a sound judgment to prorogue parliament, allowing the government, the party with the largest individual representation in the house, to put together an economic package for the country instead of having to waste time dealing with the in-fighting between self serving politicians. It almost seems like playground bullying, we could not get into power democratically, so lets gang up and do it.
How can a coalition work, where a party that represents only one province has veto. In effect it would turn out to be a puppet government that works, so long as it tows the Bloc line. The Bloc have said before, they are only interested in Quebec, not their country Canada. The NDP & Liberals would have to get permission from the Bloc to do anything.
If we ended up with a coalition bickering amongst themselves or never agreeing on anything because it is vetoed by the Bloc our economy would spiral and we would lose world confidence.
At the end of January if the Conservatives cannot bring parliament together then the matter should be put to another election. Let the people of Canada decide their own fate in an issue as important as this.
It does not matter who is in power, they will always be doing a poor job to some and the minority parties will disagree on principle because it was not their idea.
It seems a sound judgment to prorogue parliament, allowing the government, the party with the largest individual representation in the house, to put together an economic package for the country instead of having to waste time dealing with the in-fighting between self serving politicians. It almost seems like playground bullying, we could not get into power democratically, so lets gang up and do it.
How can a coalition work, where a party that represents only one province has veto. In effect it would turn out to be a puppet government that works, so long as it tows the Bloc line. The Bloc have said before, they are only interested in Quebec, not their country Canada. The NDP & Liberals would have to get permission from the Bloc to do anything.
If we ended up with a coalition bickering amongst themselves or never agreeing on anything because it is vetoed by the Bloc our economy would spiral and we would lose world confidence.
At the end of January if the Conservatives cannot bring parliament together then the matter should be put to another election. Let the people of Canada decide their own fate in an issue as important as this.
It does not matter who is in power, they will always be doing a poor job to some and the minority parties will disagree on principle because it was not their idea.
Dec 5th 2008, 5:34 pm
#23
Part Time Poster
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 4,219
Re: comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
In a democracy, especially one in todays chaotic economic and social environment, "wasting time" dealing with different opinions is vital. As for what the world thinks of us: it's an overinflated ego that believes Canada is in the eye of the world, which is even more reason that as responsible Canadians we maintain the avenues of open debate and dialogue always. If "wasting time" debating was ever more necessary, it is now. Instead, our "minority conservative" representatives have made it abundantly clear without the approval of Canadians at large, that this "minority government" does not consider legitimately elected members from Quebec to be legally legitimate Canadians. Harper has played right into the sovereignist hands, and quite frankly there will be an increase in sympathisers for their cause amongst non Quebecers. How can Harper reject a coalition with the BLoc in a Parliament he himself has been a member of for many years. This isnt politics. This is bigotry, dictatorship and pure incomptence. Jean Chretien must be very amused at the stupidity of this so called "government".
I think you will find that the further west you go the less tolerance there is for a party with a single provincial focus, there is no resentment for elected members of parliament from Quebec that stand for parties with a national focus
And this applies for the reverse as many other parties have benefited in the past when the conservative party had a west/Albertan focus and didn’t have a clear enough national focus or mandate
I don’t like Harper, but I think the conservative in a minority position is the better solution than the coalition that’ll be lucky to maintain cohesion till the end of next week
The GG's move probably has more to do with avoiding a no confidence vote by a frail coalition which would most likely collapse rapidly in government and lead us to anther election. This gives both the conservatives a chance to get their act together whilst testing the cohesive strength of the coalition, if it lasts till the end of Jan then it may just be fit enough to take power
Not unreasonable when considering the personalities involved
The alternative of a minority conservative party ousted from power, to be replaced by a coalition that fragments shortly afterwards, leaving a very real vacuum in office
Dec 5th 2008, 7:12 pm
#24
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Formally Scotland. Now Bay of Quinte...Ontario
Posts: 2,466
Re: comparing Harper's move to suspend Parliament to burning of the Reichstag
For many the choice is pretty simple. Either the pr%$k, the A$$h$le and the fool? You decide which one is which. ( I exclude the Bloc as they are not a Federal Party and should not be included anyway...)
I am not enamoured by either frankly however the pr%$K is marginally preferable to a combined A$$h$le and fool...
...and their is hope that at the end of all of this, the pr%$k will be replaced sooner rather than later, as will the fool
I am not enamoured by either frankly however the pr%$K is marginally preferable to a combined A$$h$le and fool...
...and their is hope that at the end of all of this, the pr%$k will be replaced sooner rather than later, as will the fool
Last edited by macadian; Dec 5th 2008 at 7:16 pm.
