elle192021

Hi all,

I have made a thread in the Immigration & Citizenship Forum asking about the possible routes available to me as a civil engineer to go to Canada (Civil Engineer in Canada?).

Naturally, I have a lot of general questions about civil engineering as a career in Canada so I have been advise to make a thread in this main forum.

I will start off with the questions that came up in the previous thread:

1. How has working as a civil engineer in Canada compared to the UK?
2. Is progression better/worse?
3. Are there more/less opportunities?
4. How is the variety of work?
5. Is it possible for someone with mostly office-based and inspection (for design/assessment) experience to get a job in contracting?
6. Would project management in a consultancy be transferable to a contractor setting?
7. Is there a significant difference in the codes? Or is it relatively ok to pick up since the engineering principles should be the same?
8. Is the process for P.Eng very difference to C.Eng with ICE?
9. Do companies help to pay your membership fees to a professional institute? Or even the fee for professional review?
10. I have noticed on the ICE website that they do have some presence in Canada, does remaining a member have any worth?

I know that is quite a lot of questions, but hopefully this thread can help other people who may be looking for the same answers.

Thanks and regards,
Lucy

not2old

see below

Engineer_abroad

1. Difficult one to answer really. I have enjoyed both equally, but have found I have more responsibility in Canada than I did in the UK. This is probably more to do with having moved from a small design team to a larger one and hence the need to delegate more.

I find the profession is more respected here. One of the main differences is the level of regulatory oversight and the use of prescriptive design standards and guidelines. For example, as a geotechnical engineer, in the UK I determined my own factors of safety based on my understanding of the problem here in Canada I am mandated to use prescribed values, or could face real challenges to my work.

2. I have found progression better but that is almost certainly because I moved from a small team to a larger one. Also my areas of specialism is more in demand here in Canada. Most companies will require you to be a P.Eng before you can advance to an upper intermediate/senior level position.

3. I would say more opportunities to get involved in different areas of the industry but this is more going to depend on the company than the country.

4. I do a good mix of overseas and local work but would like more site time. More a function of being an upper intermediate level engineer though.

5. Absolutely, and I would highly encourage you to do so. A good engineer will have a mix of consulting and contracting although ultimately most will settle on one.

6. Yes and no. You use the same skills in both, planning, budget and schedule control but contracting is a lot more sub-contractor management whilst consulting is more client management. I do just want to add that project management is not per se a civil engineering discipline (it is a discipline in its own right). I have seen a lot of young civil engineers be sold the lie that the pinnacle of civil engineering is project management. We all do a bit of it but it is perfectly normal to become a technical leader and leave project management to those who have an aptitude for it.

7. Principles are the same and you wont find you are using anything vastly different to what you are in the UK. Codes are more prescriptive, as above, and can at times feel a little stifling. You get used to them.

8. It is similar but slightly different. The main differences are 1. you do not do a professional review here in Canada i.e. you don't typically do an interview. 2. You must site a professional practice and ethics exam, which also includes construction industry law. You will also need 1 year of Canadian work experience to become P.Eng. In my experience it is slightly easier to get P.Eng in Canada than C.Eng with the ICE. It is also less of an old boys social club.

9. It depends on the company. Mine does pay the annual subscription costs only (and only started doing this this year). Registration, seminar and exam fess are covered by the individual but with the company supporting with additional time off work to complete them.

10. I found there to be next to zero presence here in Canada. The ICE makes a lot of noise about being a global institution and I have found it to be all talk. I have kept my membership going but only because I completed my training agreement and only need professional review to get my C.Eng. Unfortunately, the ICE don't make it easy for you to do a professional review overseas, unless you are in SE Asia. In the last 10 years I am not aware that they have ever offered a professional review location in the Americas let alone Canada. Unfortunately there systems are completed outdated and they have not worked out a way for a professional review to do be done via teleconference. Whether it is worth keeping your membership will depend on 2 things. 1) Have you started you training agreement and are close to completing it? 2. Are you intending to return to the UK and want the designation. Remember you don't need to be a C.Eng to practice in the UK and P.Eng is pretty well recognized anyway.

elle192021

Thanks for your reply and the links

Thanks for replying and detailing your experience.

4. When you do overseas work, it would be to the codes in the relevant country right? So, being P.Eng or both P.Eng and C.Eng wouldn't matter? As in, only having P.Eng wouldn't limit you to only having opportunities to work on Canadian projects only?

5. Most of the people I have spoken to have gone from contractor to consultant... Do you think it's possible to do it the other way around? It's probably a bit more difficult?

7. That is reassuring, it sounds like it would be relatively easy to adapt.

8. Oh I see, and I am guessing there would be some sort of guidance and handbook that you can learn from and also learn on the job? It is very good to hear that it is not sort of exclusive in that way.

10. That is quite surprising to me.

cbrown89

4. I am a civil engineer working in oil and gas. Your P.Eng licence is to practice in a province, if you want to stamp drawings/eng documents in other provinces you have to be licenced. Say you have a P.Eng from APEGA (Alberta) you would need to apply to get one for Saskatchewan although this process is much quicker and different to your initial application. Most companies when doing work in other provinces or countries use their current engineers and will hire a stamping engineer/principal or a consultancy to provide guidance for local codes etc.

5. I am confused what is the difference between consultancy work and contracting ??

8. Yes lots of study material available for P.Eng app.

Engineer_abroad

4. No, I do a lot of work overseas and then use a local licensed engineer to review and sign/stamp. Most my work is overseas right now.

5. Easy to do, both have benefits to each other. It is more normal to go contracting to consultancy but I know plenty who have done it the other way round. In some of the larger consultancy you do some elements of contracting anyway.

7. Yes, takes some time but you will be working under the supervision of a licensed professional so you should have time to onboard and learn from them. note codes can change by province.

8. 2 main books to go throught. Exam is non-technical in nature and is more of a test of professional practice, ethics and tort/contract law. Both Canadian and UK law are common law systems, unless you're in Quebec, so they are not fundamentally different.

10. It was to me to but the ICE doesn't get much of a following here because professionals need to be licensed by their provinces, (so why maintain 2, especially as they are not mutually recognized and, apart from recognition, C.Eng means nothing.

elle192021

Thanks for responding

Consultants are usually office based doing more design work, contractors are usually site based m The difference probably more apparent in building/construction than oil and gas...

Oh ok, I don't mind not signing stuff off.

I'm learning a bit about construction ethics and compliance at the moment, I am guessing the ethics part isn't too different, maybe just the law/legislation.

That's fair enough then since it isn't really recognised over there.

Engineer_abroad

Depends what they do:
the consultant, designer normally has a presence on site during all construction works.
Consultants tend to provide QA/QC services which require staff on site. Geotechnical consultants like mine supervise site investigation campaigns.
Designers need to visit sites before, during and after work.

Pizzawheel

I'm in building engineering rather than civil, but I'd note that across all disciplines British engineers appear to have a tougher job getting PEng with a British degree in Ontario than they do in other provinces (specifically BC and Alta). That might inform your landing point.

In BC I know the British institutes have banded together into a CEng organisation, as individually they are too small to operate. Here you go, they've just changed name:

https://charteredengineerspacific.ca/

Overseas these chapters are 100% volunteer. We have done teleconference CEng interviews for my institute from Toronto, but that did involve me organizing it and using my firm's VC facilities. Given the size of the ICE (one of the "Big Three") I'm surprised no one out there can help.

Engineer_abroad

Thanks for that I will explore just this option with them. ICE in London have been useless

elle192021

Ohh thanks for clearing that up!

Oh that is where I am looking... will having British degrees make it any harder trying to get a job in Ontario too?

johntheScot

having a British degree is not a hindrance to employment but it would be fair to say there would be a slight bias towards Canadian degrees as i am sure there is in the UK for British degrees.

ideally if the person hiring is old stock Canadian if you went to the same engineering school that is a foot in the door.

But the reality is that most new registrants as P.Eng are internationally educated this is especially in the Metro areas. good chance the person doing the hiring, interviews and will be your new boss be an immigrant.

As long as you can legally work without them having to get involved then i dont see any issues, if they have to do work to get you here that is a whole other situation.

elle192021

Oh I see, hopefully some people share the same alma mater then haha

How important is it to have an ECA of your degree at the speculative application stage?

So applying to a position for which you would need an LMIA and the chances of getting it would be slim to none.

Engineer_abroad

No need for an ECA, the engineering world pretty much recognize each other degrees even if the associations can make it difficult. Note is far from impossible you might just have to jump through some extra hoops.

LMIA would be difficult unless you have some unique experience or skills that others wont. The more you specialize and the more experience you have the more likely it is you could gain a positive LMIA

johntheScot

ECA is not required by employers it will be required if you make an express entry application. so it all depends on the route you choose to come to Canada.

basically two choices spousal or express entry.

LMIA is not that difficult (compared to other jobs) to get as an experienced civil engineer there is an overall shortage of engineers in Canada. the more flexible you are on location and position the easier it is to get.

There are obviously down turns in sectors, locations etc that can effect prospects for instance you are not going to get an oil and gas related job in AB just now but there are still civil infrastructure positions.

you may end up getting enough point without a job offer worth setting up a ee profile and seeing what happens.