10-4

Hi everyone… my company has given me the opportunities to work and live in Toronto on a fulltime bases. From reading bog’s and books I get the impression that the grass is not a green on the other side as the books make it out to be in Canada. If I decide to go my UK wage would just be turned in to dollars so with the higher living costs it’s a downer. Plus I believe that you only get 2 weeks of optional holiday in Canada were the UK get around 4 weeks.
I still believe this is an opportunity of a lifetime so could any help to say what are the positive sides of moving form the UK to Toronto with my wife and two children (age 4 & 2).

lins and Stef McLachlan

Hi
My advice would be to GO.........the cost of living over there is relative to the wages....so once the £uk are spent and you are working in $cdn....it should feel the same. Also sounds to me as if you will get the same salary as in the UK......but in $cdn? That will give you a good wage by Canadian standards as the wages tend to be lower......or so people have been saying.

I say.....no point sitting in an old folks home in your old age wishing you had tried it.....if it does not work out hopefully the company will just transfer you back to UK.
Good luck whatever you do decide to do
lol
Stef

Howefamily

I would go if I were you, perfect chance to give it a shot, with the opportunity of returning if you hate it, at the companys expense ( I am assuming this)

I also thought long and hard about the less amount of holiday you get but have been assured by many that in Canada people do not live for their holidays so much as they do not need to "get away" so much, but rather have a better quality of life in their everyday.

Good luck, in whatever you choose to do

singingringingtree

Don't they have more 'extra' days off in Canada though, like bank holidays etc.?

Kynn

Having lived in Toronto in the past, I would say it depends on just what that "wage" is. The UK may be expensive, but Toronto is not cheap either. Housing there is particularly expensive. For example, if you're making 40k in the UK, 40k is NOT going to go far in Toronto for a family of 4. However, if you're making 80K in the UK, it's obviously going to be a bit less of an issue.

It also depends whether you currently live in a really large city and like it? If you live in a small town and want to work in Toronto and keep that same kind of living arrangement, you had better be prepared for quite the commute (depending on where exactly the company is). Keep in mind people often say "Toronto" and forget that "Toronto" is now an amalgamation of many cities spread across a large area. Keep in mind that a huge percentage of people who work in Toronto don't actually live there. They're commuting from as far as an hour and a half (in NON rush hour traffic) out of the city.

That said, if you figure the finances will work, then it's certainly worth trying it out and seeing if you like it! If you don't try, you'll never know. But if you do try, there is nothing that says you can't "go home" if you absolutely dislike it.

Toronto does have it's "amenities", that's for sure. My kids always LOVED the zoo, the Royal Ontario Museum, and the Ontario Science Center. (there is also Canada's Wonderland in the summer as well as Ontario Place -- but I've not had the kids to either one). When we lived there (and even after we moved to Guelph, about an hour away from Toronto) we always had a family membership to at least 2 of the 3 places at any given time. It allowed for great, not-too-expensive daytrips to the city. There's lots of shopping to be found (if that's your thing) and the city is extremely multi-cultural. There is an expansive (tho not always the easiest to get around on) transit system that is generally "do-able" with kids if needed. By the way, pay close attention to where you live vs where you need to go and the transit options (and times!) in between the two if you do look at living there....there are some areas that are an absolute nightmare to get to from other areas.

I'm not trying to be a downer, just a realist because I know what it's like to live in that city, and it's certainly not for everyone.

canadian wokkadoctor

No, I think the "stat days" (Canadian for a bank holiday) are one for one UK/canadian.

Kynn

We get about 10 "stat days" a year. After that, it varies between companies. Some companies you start with 2 weeks hols a year, some 3. Most of them, that increases over time (albeit a LONG time it seems). Some companies also give you x number of sick days a year and sometimes x number of 'personal days' a year as well. But anything over stat holidays and your 2 (or whatever number) weeks vacation depends on who you work for.

10-4

Thanks everyone for your reply’s… could I ask a couple of open questions to you.

If we move to Toronto I would love to buy a descent size house (say around a 4/5 bed house) but would love it to come with some land as I am into my cross country motor bikes and skidoos. Could anyone suggest a nice area to live that is still around 1-1/2 hours to centre Toronto..?? Would you know price range for houses in this area..??

What would you say is a good wage to be on that you are about to run 2 cars and house and have money to spend at the weekends..?

Is it right at car insurance can be up to $1,000 per year..??

Oink

Hi
My advice would be to STAY.........the cost of living over there is exsensive ....so once the £uk are spent and you are working in $cdn....you'll be buggered. Also sounds to me as if you will get the same salary as in the UK......but in $cdn, no sh*t! That will give you a crap wage by Canadian standards as the wages tend to be lower......or so people have been saying, as I really have no idea.

I say.....no point disrupting your life just because you just really need a long holiday.....if it does not work out you may well be screwed.

Good luck whatever you do decide to do. hugs.

Kynn

Ok, realistically, you're looking at a bare minimum of $300,000 for a house, and that's going to be a small townhouse. If you went to Georgetown, for example, (about 1 hr by Go-Train from downtown Toronto plus commute time to the train station and to the office door) you would be looking at a townhouse or semi-detached in the city for $300,000 or so. Outside town you can add about another $200,000 to that to even consider property. Even in town you're possibly looking at more like $400,000. Unless you have flexible hours at work, I wouldn't consider moving some place that required commuting by car (one traffic jam and you're going to be late). Keep in mind Toronto is not a well laid out city and getting downtown by car is a nightmare at rush hour. I would think, that you'd probably be looking at more like the $500,000 range for a house that is at least an hour out of the city, more the closer you get. And that wouldn't be with a whole lot of land. I have no clue if you went east or north of Toronto. Go to www.mls.ca and take a look at houses in and around Toronto. From there, you'll get a good idea of what appeals to *you* and how much it would cost you in the various areas.

Keep in mind that how much you can spend on a house depends on how much you earn. Go to http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/products...lculators.html and use their "how much can I afford" calculator to see what you'd be looking at. For example, on a $100,000 a year salary, with NO other debt (no car loan, no credit cards etc), you could get a mortgage for a purchase price of $400,000 IF you had $20,000 down (at 5% interest rate and over 35 yrs).

As for cars, well, I think your insurance estimate is considerably low. You will, most likely, have no insurance rating here when you arrive. This means you will, most likely, be paying quite high insurance. I think, for 1 car, two drivers, you had better plan to at least double that insurance estimate. Some people on here report paying up to $4000 a year. It will depend a) where you live, b) what you drive, c) how far your commute to work is and d) how lucky you get finding a decent broker. Again, the closer to Toronto, the higher the insurance.

If it was me, personally, and I was moving back to the Toronto area, I would not want to be earning less than $100,000 cdn for a family of four to live within commuting distance to Toronto and have 2 cars and money left over for "weekends". Even then, I think the lifestyle would be quite minimal (assuming only 1 person working). There wouldn't be money left over for travel, eating out, vacations, 'toys' (skidoos etc) or much else. But then, I wouldnt' be looking at a detached house in the country with property either.

Keep in mind though, that it also depends on things like how often you eat out, how much you spend on clothes, how much you spend on toys etc. For example, if you plan on going back to see family in the UK once a year, a good chunk of your vacation time is going to be used for that, and you can figure between $3,000 and $4,000 a year for flights alone.

It's a big move, and a big decision. You're wise to take it seriously!

Lord Vader

The Canadian statutory holidays for 2010 and 2011. There are also other stat holidays depending on which province your are in. http://www.worldtravelguide.net/coun...ca/Canada.html

As for wages, I think many new immigrants experience a reduction in their wage relative to what they earned at the time they emigrated. It can take a couple of years to get back to where they were. Overall I think it depends on the occupation, but median household income seems to be a bit higher in Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

and income per capita
http://www.success-and-culture.net/a...taincome.shtml

cost of living by city for 2009 according to Mercer http://www.mercer.com/costoflivingpr found near the bottom

Lorna999

Hi 10-4 Big decision ahead for you! Just wanted to say that my OH just got offered a job as an architect in NS 2 days ago. We were quite worried about the leave entitlement, but turned out better than we expected. OH was offered 3 weeks leave for the first year. This is reviewable at the end of the year and will rise it they are happy with him. He has also been given the option of working flexi time. If he works any overtime, this is bankable and the director explained that last year, everyone had every friday off during the summer months. (instead of getting paid the overtime) My friend who also works in NS got offered a deal and managed to negotiate an extra week holiday for a slight pay cut. Depends what is important to you I guess. I know all companies are different, but it does show there is some flexibility there. I think they have a 'work hard' 'play hard' policy.
Anyway, hope that helps, and good luck with whatever you decide.(oh adn I forgot... it is mentioned in his contract that he gets a day off on his birthday every year as an extra (new one on me.....!)

Alan2005

Note that average household income is not the same as average salary. Though it seems that if you work for the public sector salaries are higher than the equivalent in the UK. In my profession local salaries in Vancouver are about a third less than what they are in the UK.

To the OP; the FX rate is crap at the moment, you may get screwed in the conversion to cad.

Lord Vader

average income or median income? Median means half earn more, half less.

Alan2005

Median - average wages are always the median average. Not this pedantry again please...