We are slightly confused by what we can buy and wondered if anyone could offer their advice/models for us to research ahead of arriving (OH is quite keen on this bit).

We currently drive Volvo V70 (2.4 petrol but surprisingly fuel efficient (OH does lots of motorway driving) and renault scenic (1.6VVT). Lets say our total budget would be $30,-42,000.

We are going to Calgary and want 1 4WD/SUv and one smaller but not small car. We want the 4WD for lots of skiing and some gravel roads etc but not really serious off road kind of stuff! Other vehicle for daily activities and city driving- but it must fit 2 adults two kids. It must also be hatchback- not a car with a boot and must be relatively fuel efficient.

The larger one needs to be relatively fuel efficient (from a green persective)and would ideally seat up to 7 , but when in 5 mode have room for lots of luggage. We are struggling on fuel efficiency front (I think I am also partly confused by the us gallon vs Uk- is there a diffierence?). Some web sites don't seem to anywhere include info for fuel efficency (eg Jeep?), most very large ones seem to guzzle massively. It looks like the new mistibushi Outlander might suit, but it only came out this year and we don't really want to buy new. Any suggestions??? Does the requirement for fuel effeicncy mean we go japenese rather than NA? In the Uk our natural bias seem to be to look at euro cars rather than cars from US or far east- so we don't really have an idea about what is on offer.

Also confused by pricing- what do I have to add on for taxes etc for either new or second hand cars. New cars seem to come with 5 yr warrenty- does this pass to second hand ones?

So what are our options??

Thanks

Gryphea

A fuel efficient 7 seat 4x4? No such beast really, it's all about degree's of inefficiency! Canadian 'Energuide' fuel consumption info for various vehicles can be found here http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportatio...rch.cfm?attr=8 Note that these are the 'theoretical' consumption figures much like manufacturers own and probably wont be seen in the real world!

Vehicles you might want to consider are the Nissan Pathfinder (7 seats) and the Toyota Highlander. Also, Jeep will release a diesel Grand Cherokee this year which might be worth a look at.

Incidentally, most manufacturer websites have a 'build and price' or similar option where you can choose the vehicle, spec it, choose a location and get the pricing inclusive of taxes etc. Of course this is the full retail price and just like in the UK you can and should try and negotiate a better deal!

AX

Well we are also looking for a small(ish) 4WD SUV plus a family car and have decided on a Subaru Forester and a Subaru Impreza Wagon.

Not particulary the most economical cars to run but you can't beat Japanese reliability and build quality.

http://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.asp?WebSiteID=282 if you are interested.

4WD, 4 seats, massive luggage capacity, cheap to buy, reasonable fuel economy.

<spits on ground>

Honda Element.

OK so 7 seats are a bit of a wish rather than an essential. That site is really useful - have also made a speadsheet so I can convert between mpg uk and mpg ca and l/100km

I have seen the build and price options and have used them- I just wondered whether that is it- no major nasty surprises lurking out there? OH will check out your options!

Also what sort of deals are avaliable on negotiation- percentage wise?

Gryphea

OK thanks will check these out!

just had a look at that- weird looking car!

Why the spitting?

Note that MPG UK and MPG CA are exactly the same. A gallon is the same in Canada as in the UK. It's only the Americans who have to be different.

The 'build and price' calculators should include everything. (IIRC the Toyota one gives you the option to include taxes or not.) Do note that if you are leasing a car you pay HST/GST on the monthly payment (but not on the purchase price.) If you buy a car then you obviously pay GST/HST on the Purchase price.

% on negotiation? Will vary from car to car & dealer to dealer. Less chance of discounts on Nissan/Toyota IMHO than DC/Ford/GM but then arguable better quality vehicles.

Oh yes, dbd33 is pulling your chain on the Honda Element. He hates his with a passion and fury because a) he seems to have had a lot of trouble with it and b) it's almost as gay as his Beetle convertable.

Oh, and talking about Honda, you might look at the Honda Pilot which is a 7 seater 4x4. (Kinda like a CRV on steroids.)

will do

Nissan X-trail (OK, only 5 seats, but otherwise suits the 4WD spec)
Toyota Highlander
Honda Pilot
Volvo XC90 (in case you win the lotto between now and then )

Nissan Versa (small hatch, I think it's called the Note or something in the UK)
VW Golf/Rabbit?
Toyota Yaris or Honda Fit (UK Jazz) may be a bit small

Late-model used versions would probably just about get you in under your total budget - if you wanted to buy new you'd probably be looking at low-end domestic models and if you're used to the build quality, fit & finish in a V70 I wouldn't go there.

Official Canadian fuel figures are in l/100km which should also be quoted in UK specs, so there's a direct comparison. Highway figures are pretty meaningless (I can't remember how it's calculated, but it's something like a steady 90km/h on a rolling road with very little wind resistance), I'd look at the city figure as a more realistic number unless you're planning never to stop at a traffic light or stop sign and accelerate from rest afterwards.

I don't own the Element. It came with the woman. It seemed unremarkable that she'd have one when I thought she was gay.

Anyway, while I hate it, those are the features. If you want lots of cargo space and 4WD for not a lot of money then it does do the job. Plainly any vehicle meeting your requirements is going to be pretty dull so there's a case for going the whole hog. I suspect though that a minivan would be an even more sensible choice.

here's the official test - not really much of a reflection of real life. All cars (including 4WD) are tested on a 2-wheel rolling road in 2WD mode, and an "adjustment" is made for the additional load of 4WD:

Simulated city course
The city test simulates a 12-km, stop-and-go trip with an average speed of 32 km/h and a top speed of 91 km/h. The test runs for 23 minutes and includes 18 stops. About 4 minutes of test time are spent idling, to represent waiting at traffic lights. The test begins from a cold engine start, which is similar to starting a vehicle after it has been parked overnight during the summer. When the test is completed, the test cycle starts again with a hot engine start, and the first 8 minutes of the test are repeated. This simulates restarting a vehicle after it has been warmed up, driven and then stopped for a short time.

Simulated highway course
The highway test simulates a 16-km trip with an average speed of 77 km/h and a top speed of 97 km/h. The test runs for 13 minutes and does not include any stops. However, the speed varies to simulate different kinds of rural and highway roads. The test begins from a hot engine start.

Thanks

Are cars much more fuel inefficient in the winter? (maybe this is a dumb question?)

So long as you only use the tests to compare cars they're reasonable enough. I don't think they're intended to have value beyond that.