s_pebbles

Hi
I have a holiday booked to go to Canada & USA shortly, Flying into West Coast Canada and out of East Coast USA, going over Canadian/US border on west coast, then have internal US flight to East Coast and international flights home). Problem is that I was just told (yesterday!) about the rules relating to entry into Canada for people who have a criminal record.
My convictions:
DUI in 1996 (banned for 18 months) no other points or driving convictions since, got licence back in late 1997, conviction comes off licence next year.
1998 - convicted obtaining property by deception received 140 hrs community service

My difficulty is timing, I can't do anything about applying for a visa now and I wont have time to get court papers or police checks to take with me.

Since my convictions were deemed spent (UK Rehab Offenders Law) I have travelled to USA on a couple of occassions and ticked no on the Visa Waiver Form to the criminal conviction question, thought as convictions spent in UK, I can do so (I now realise that I should not have done this - apologies to anyone offended by this)
Questions?
1. Should I just travel, and then tell Canadian immigration on my arrival (I now have a good steady job for a well respected FTSE listed company, own my own house and am married, lots of ties, money in bank, no risk of overstay, and don't have any plans to drive)
2. Should I travel but not say anything? Does the Canadian Immigration Service have access to UK Police Records, whats the chances of them finding out? (I have no intention of ever applying for any permanent status in Canada)
3. I guess same questions for entering USA, again too late for interview (am less worried about USA as have travelled fairly recently and not had any problems, never overstayed) etc

Thanks any help and advice gratefully received

s_pebbles

Hi, hope I've not offended anyone by asking the question. I appreciate that there are lots of people on this site who are looking to live permanently in Canada and I hope your new lives are as good as the dreams that you have for them.
I genuinely have only just found out about my dilema, we booked flights about 1 month ago and will be visiting some friends who themselves emigrated a few years ago. My wife is putting pressure on me to get some answers and if I felt at this stage that I had an alternative other than to ask I would. Please if anyone does have any advice I would appreciate it. (By the way my criminal record for deception did in no way involve deceiving anyone vulnerable or old, I made a stupid mistake when applying for housing benefit and have payed the price more than anyone will ever know since)
Thanks

loftuslee

I have no expertise and have never had a criminal record however from experience of traveling to states and Canada on plenty of occasions Id not wait till I got there to tell them as you'll likey be sent straight back

you should perhaps contact the US and Canadian Embassies before travel regarding this..thats what i'd do..as you may know, they definately take zero crap at points of entry so Id sort before-hand..

s_pebbles

I have already contacted the US Embassy (didn't give them my name) but have been told that I need to get an interview and the first date is not until April! (which means its impossible to get interviewed before travelling. My dilema is that I have already travelled to the USA a few times in the last couple of years and not ever had a problem (i thought I was entitled to tick NO to the criminal record box as I am considered rehabilitated in UK as more than 5 years since my offences). I now know that I should have ticked yes, the law hasn't changed since I last travelled, the US are just doing a better job at making sure people know what the rules are.

I just do not know what to do? Travel and run the risk of being caught or cancel and risk wrath of wife (who knows everything about my past)!

loftuslee

I wouldnt risk it but thats because I wanna travel there in the future..you need to consider that..also they wont let you travel there without a brand new chipped Passport now I believe?..the idea of that would make me nervous

YYZlover

Yes, they will. As long as they are mahine readable you can travel on your old passport. Machine readable passports were rolled out about 5 years ago.

s_pebbles

Thanks, yeah I have a machine readable passport so no problems there, I guess, I just really want to know the likelihood of me getting caught if I decide to take the risk. Does Canadian immigration have actual access to the UK Police National Computer? Its seems that the US do not otherwise I would have been flagged last time I travelled. Therefore if US don't and nothing has changed recently, it seems unlikely that Canada do not have access either. I know they have access to Interpol and the info they get provided is linked to national security, stolen passports, over stayers, organised crime etc. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't dream of doing this but its difficult to just throw all the money that we paid for the holiday down the drain (its our first one in 2 years), plus coming up with an excuse for letting friends and family down as well as.
Please, I would appreciate any info

Voyager970

Peebles

A few points that you might want to consider

I was a prison officer in the UK and my friend was to
Last year he was going to florida on holiday and when he was booking the holiday he was asked in the holiday shop if he had any criminal convictions as he entering America

He told them that he had a breach of the peace conviction from when he was 17 years old, 22 years ago and that it wouldn,t matter, he was told that it would matter as rules had all changed to enter America.

Anyway he had to travel to Belfast from Glasgow to the American embassy for an interview, meanwhile he had to obtain court reports about his conviction to take to the embassy.

He was told in the embassy that it was wise to have told them about his past conviction as he would have been held at immigration in America and put back to the UK on the first available flight.
His conviction was spent under the rehabilition of offenders act but still had to declare it to enter America, he had a 10 year visa inserted into his UK passport.

If you have a machine readable passport, as far as what I am aware thay can get access to to your UK history

Is it worth getting about turned in America back to the UK

Eddie

fishfinger

It's a difficult one but I know that you do take the risk of being banned for 10 years from the States if they find out you have made a false statement. We took the time to get the 10 year B2 visas and are glad we did. We didn't have any criminal convictions but we were once denied a visa so we couldn't use the VWP anymore.

Can you not get an emergency meeting set up at the Embassy? Try ringing the number again and see if you can.

London7

With the US its all down to whether the crime is a CIMT.crime involving moral turpitude, unfortuanetly for you, deception, because its dishonesty, is likely to be.
I think if you should be upsfront asap, for both countries, like OP said, they must have emergency appointments at Embassy?
Good luck.

s_pebbles

Thanks for everyones advice, appreciate that in an ideal world I should approach the embassy but I have already done that and been told flat out that I will not get an interview until April which is too late.
I have already travelled to the USA since 9/11 and did not have any problems then. Would anyone know of any reason if I should experience a problem now.

I am particularly interested in Canada because I have never travelled there before.

I can appreciate an embassy telling someone it was wise to fess up because they would have got caught but its highly unlikely that they would openly admit that they have little or no access anyones specific data unless the have committed certain extremely serious types of crime. That would mean they would have to do a criminal records search on every single person that gets on a plane.
Do you think that is possible? Does anybody know of anyone in a similar position who was travelling specifically for a holiday (no other hidden agenda) and got caught because of a conviction which occured some time ago?

snowbunny

Possible to screen passenger manifestos of only the inbound passengers who aren't citizens or PRs or hold visas? Why do you think they ask for the lists?

s_pebbles

When you say screen manifestos i guess you are talking about the plane manifesto to find out who is on the plane, full name, passport number, but very little other information?

Ben W Bell

Well the UK sends quite a lot of information on all air passengers to the US now, it's been in the news quite a bit over the last year or so. We don't know exactly what information they send but I'd imagine criminal convictions may well be one of those pieces of info. Personally with the US's current paranoid border controls I wouldn't risk it and wait until I can speak with an Embassy person.

roxye3

Mate I would not worry about it. I have travelled exstensivley to the US and Canada on many occassionas. I have held 7 US work visa over 8 years and can tell you that the US and Canadian government do not know if you have a criminal record unless you are wanted for murder or brought down Bearings Bank.

IF HOWEVER:-

You wish to work in the US or Canada that is a whole different story. You will have to do background checks and what not. There you might come unstuck but the family trip to the US/ Canada to visit friends or go to Disney world, Maybe shop it up in NYC or listen to Niagara Falls thundering down, You'll be fine. As far as I know the US have no way to tap into the British Criminal system unless it is Via Interpol and then you must have done somthing MAJOR like Murder or you know, destroying a bank, losing millions of £££'s and the livelyhood of thousands. I got a sneaking suspition that you might not have done any of that. Enjoy your holiday mate.

Oh and keep in mind the US Waiver thing requires that you can show proof that you will leave the US. US Custom Officials get very nervious when they see you have a one way flight in and no way out unless you are on a work visa so make sure you have all your flight info ready when you cross the border from Canada into the US. Getting into Canada via the land border is easy. Getting back to the US is nerve racking and if you get a stroppy Customes Officer then keep cool and finish every sentence with "YES SIR/MA'AM".

have fun.

By chance if I am wrong let me know people. This is all based on my experience over 8 years.

Laters.