Hopefully not a topic that effects me here, but just wondering what the general feeling was around whether Canada was becoming a bit too hard to gain entry to for your regular joe.

Given the large movement up in both regular EE/FSW and FST scores in the last 18 months do you feel for your average British person with no prior connection to Canadait is becoming a little bit awkward to get into Canada?

Looking at current draw cut offs for EE - it would appear unless you have already been in the country studying/working, or have family in the country, it would appear entry becomes almost impossible without 2 degrees.

Likewise for anyone like myself who's got a trade behind them, without other connections to Canada as above you are looking for someone who has got perfect english scores and secondary education (which is largely on a par with UK A levels) so you want someone who has been to college in the UK and then took up an apprenticeship, and has very good english skills. looking at the draw I got my ITA in which was a 357, its getting to the point where you are almost requiring university education, perfect english scores and a C of Q. When typically those in the trades may not be academically gifted so not have the best IELTS scores or academic education.

Looking at various PNPs, I was all set to get into Saskatchewan with an occupation in demand, scoring 63 on the SINP grid, but since the change in rules to allowing more occupations, the score hasn't dropped below 69 (and whilst the way work experience is now calculated I now have 67 not 63) basically ruling out anyone without a connection to the province or a masters degree. The majority of other PNPs require job offers which are awkward to get without being able to work over there.

If not Canada, what are the other choices? It may be hard to get into Canada but it's easier than the US (which is why most people come here) and comparable to Australia. The electorate having gone mad, Europe is no longer an option, so where you gonna go?

Oh yea, not debating that - America is another level (Canada was my 1st choice, America 2nd) never looked at Aus/NZ requirements.

But it just feels as of late the days of having a uni degree or a trade, putting in a bit of work and being able to start your new life is possibly out of reach. I left it till the last minute and hopefully have scraped in. Whereas looking a couple of years back those same people would have cruised home.

The other bit is whether for the trades and the like setting the bar so high is meaning the country is running the risk of not getting people who wish to work in the trade.

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I think it’s a lot easier than it used to be personally - remember the days when only 29 occupations were eligible to apply under the FSW program? At least now it’s anybody scoring high enough, in thousands of jobs.

Agreed. I look at the options open to me and the options open now and think "I didn't know what I had".

In a way I think it is crazy that it has become so difficult to move to Canada. I am a tradesman also and if I had waited another 6 months I would have dropped below the points needed for EE eligibility.
Thankfully I got my ITA a couple of months ago. Without PNP support I wouldn't have had a hope.

On the other hand I think it's a good thing that it is hard process. To get in to Canada now it seems that you have to show you are qualified/skilled or show extreme determination. All desirable qualities, the UK could have learnt a lot from Canada's immigration system.

Yea, this is the thing - I'm in the same boat as you as I got my ITA in October after putting work in, flying out, sitting my C of Q, studying for english tests etc - I'm lucky in that my apprenticeship was rock hard, they made us sit an NVQ level 4 apprenticeship but then study for a HNC or equivalent (due to a swap in examination boards and other items, WES only counted the NC part of my HNC) at the same time. But for a few of my friends in the trade who know my plan, don't like the UK (don't think thats the best reason for wanting to move) - without having at least secondary education, i.e they went to sixth form etc. in the UK they are below the cut off - despite being awesome tradespeople, and there isn't really a simple route in for them via PNP (Manitoban communities who carry out exploratory visits or the like is an option).

Likewise I know another couple who want to move to Canada for the right reasons, both in very well paid/skilled jobs in the UK. 1 has 3 years of uni, the other left after 2 years due to a very good job offer - they are 40 or so points away from the mark. even if they were to try and top up to get a masters/an additional degree, with the change in age whilst doing so they would be scraping the cut off/just under it.

I'm young enough, or didn't start looking early enough(I'll let you decide which) to not remember them days - however i do look at the FST draws of 2017 and 2018 with their sub 300 scores and think how most of the good tradespeople i know score in the low 300s. Questionably some of those scoring up in the 400's now are people who got into a trade, got through their apprenticeship but didn't last long after due to not being good in the trade, then ended up going back into education. Or people who got into the trade, did their time and moved up the corporate ladder taking additional courses as they went - the reality of it being many of them won't actually fill a trade post in Canada.

I'm starting to panic that I won't get in at all. My partner and I have a CRS of 415 in an occupation that's not in demand (NOC 4021) and so far there have been 2 draws with scores much lower than us (as low as 300 - so they clearly don't want us). We were going for Alberta but I just found out that we need ties to Alberta (which we don't have) or to study there, which is very expensive.

We could also select Ontario but we're worried that it'll make it even harder to be selected for Alberta. Also Ontario seems to expensive for us anyway.

I'm feeling very down about it all.

It's no easier for Canadians trying to get to the UK.

Just as well, as if I'm correct and your NOC code is 7321, you wouldn't have got in then - it wasn't on the list of 29 eligible occupations. Hence why I say I personally think it's got easier, not harder. You may think it's hard now, but back then you wouldn't even have been eligible to apply no matter your score.

As previously said, Alberta doesn't pick just based on scores, only EE does that. For the Alberta PNP you need both a minimum score, and to be eligible under one of their criteria i.e. a job they're in need of, or previous experience there etc. You can scoring anything but if you don't have what they need, they won't select you. Ontario is the same, they have a minimum score of 400 but they only select certain occupations, or French speakers etc. For PNP's you need more than just a score.

Seems like one of you will need a job offer to get a visa from what you've said, that's the route I'd be looking at if I were you. Best of luck with it.

​​​​​​Th at is true enough, it is a pity that in regards to UK immigration rules for some countries has been better others.
It seems our shared Commonwealth history has almost been forgotten.

UK immigration rules are the same for everyone. If you're talking about EU freedom of movement, that's not a UK immigration rule.

Apologies. That was my meaning.

Try not to feel down. I was in a similar situation not too long ago, it could still work out for you.
It might be worth keeping an eye on the Rural and Northern Immigration Pilot, you never know what job vacancies might pop up.
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It seems to me that Canada places far too much emphasis on purely academic qualifications - I'll take a person any day that has trained and can do the job and that has earned themselves City & Guilds/ONC/HNC at night school (while working full time) over someone with just a shiny new degree.

Better memory than me, i had to double check my NOC code!!- although wonder if at that time my HGV license may have got me an LMO.

I was more looking at the time when i started to have ideas about the whole move in early 2018 (granted didn't act on anything until my life got turned upside down last January, then posted on here and realised my view of having 2 courses was incorrect and i had to put some work in) and looking at the draw scores from that period and prior to it - it seemed attainable for those people who i would say contribute to the UK society if they were willing to put some work in to it.

Looking at those same people 2 years on, and 90% of them aren't getting in that way. Of course it may be a case of actually the bar was set too low in them years but it does seem somewhat awkward for a tradesperson over the age of 31 to get out to Canada. under 31 and its obviously IEC and hope a job offer/LMIA and skilled work experience with Canada boosts your points.