Course it has to do with nepotism. If a reference is written down then fair enough; but you are talking about informal telephone calls between friends, sounds like nepotism to me. Where is anyone accountable for what they say?

I don't deny you the right to do this, but don't call it what it's not.

My company gives out those kinds of references (even in Canada). I guess it makes sense to check people aren't lying on their cv, just that i've never had anyone check anything (a source of great annoyance when I started as I had really good references).

I always thought an employer was well within their rights to give a derogatory reference, but they have to be able to defend it against a libel action if necessary. Most don't bother and just stick to the facts rather than opinion.

nepâ‹…oâ‹…tism
  /ˈnɛpəˌtɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [nep-uh-tiz-uhm] Show IPA
Use nepotism in a Sentence
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–noun
patronage bestowed or favoritism shown on the basis of family relationship, as in business and politics: She was accused of nepotism when she made her nephew an officer of the firm.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nepotism

Maybe you could point out where I suggested showing favoritism on the basis of a family relationship (or even friendship).

You can't?

Thought not.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

Oh come on Jonboy, you know exactly what I mean. Now you are just being pedantic to score points.

No, I genuinely don't have a clue what you mean. I have no idea how taking up references can be considered as nepotism.

It isn't. Calling (or getting called by) your friends in the business for an informal chat about a candidate with no accountability is getting close to it though (which was what I actually said in the post that pissed you off so much).

To an outsider trying to break into an industry, they will see it very much as nepotism. All they see all are jobs going to people who know people. Whilst you, individually may not be nepotistic in your hiring policies, you can see how the way that recruitment works here is systematically nepotistic (or at least has tendencies).

Not friends: business competitors. You are changing what I said to suit the point you are trying to make.

A lot of business is done on the phone. Buying, selling. negotiating contracts, and taking up references. This business is done on the basis of trust. If your word cannot be relied on in a business relationship you will be isolated very quickly.

I am glad it works this way. I would never have got my first job in Canada without it. It was only the phone conversation my prospective employer had with my last employer in the UK that persuaded him to overlook my lack of Canadian experience.

For anyone else who has managed to read this far they should understand that most companies will take up references and these will usually be by phone. Even if your employment goes horribly wrong keep things very professional.

Well, yes, maybe I'm guilty of spinning what you said; however the wider point of my argument has some truth in it hidden under the hyperbole.

Personally I would think it more than a little obnoxious for my current boss to call up a prospective future boss and have a chat about me behind my back. Though I accept it goes on and wouldn't stop anyone doing it.

Think this is more Howard Johnson than Samuel but the saying goes something like, 'the road to business hell is paved with unchecked references.'

I think you are confusing two entirely different issues here.

I have posted before about "letting it be known" as the first stage of many company's recruitment process. I can see how a newcomer could perceive this as nepotistic because the job goes to someone on the "inside" before they have an opportunity. However, perception does not make reality. The motive for an employer to hire in this way is because it is quicker, cheaper and generally more effective.

The only times I see real nepotism is with small owner managed companies. It is their money and if they want to feed the family and pay high wages to substandard employees it is their business (and don't for a moment think exactly the same thing doesn't happen everywhere in the world). It doesn't last for long.

All that said, we were talking about employers taking up references. That has nothing at all to do with nepotism. I don't need to know the previous employer in advance (or have any sort of relationship at all) to gain a lot of insight from a brief conversation. No one bases a hiring decision only on a reference but it is a valuable check and balance when relying on your gut instinct

Me too. However, if my ex-boss (which is what I said) called his competitors and told them that he had let me go because he didn't have the work to keep me on, but that I had done a great a job and would be a valuable find for anyone who did have the work, I would be very pleased.

I'd still rather he asked me first.

Ok, I accept that it isn't intended that way. For me it's similar to the difference between institutional racism and individual racism (and no I am not equating this to racism)