MarylandNed

There's a difference though. In the UK, the concept of social class (and the privileged schooling that goes with it) is woven into the very fabric of UK society. In Canada, there isn't the same stigma attached to the state school system and social mobility is much more achievable.

In the UK, a bankrupt blue blood is still a blue blood...while a working class person who has made a fortune is still considered working class and disparagingly referred to as "new money". The class system in the UK is very strong even in the 21st century. It's ridiculous that there are still hereditary peers sitting in the House of Lords.

dbd33

In case you're seeking to contrast the UK with Canada in this regard, I offer Lord Black of Crossharbour. A product of the Canadian scholastic system who reached the pinnacle of Canadian society; the House of Lords.

America, of course, is also a bastion of dynastic power and wealth, George Bush Jr. epitomises that.

I'm not saying Canada is worse than either, rather that it's not immune to human nature nor to caste systems.

iaink

Dont bet too much Just the other day I discovered that a friend of mine who(m) Ive known 4 or 5 years now spent 7 years studying at Queens (BEng, MSc, MBA), but only after I asked them where they went to Uni...

I dont blame them for not bragging, certainly in my field its not that well regarded anyway...

MarylandNed

My point is that the social class system is much, much stronger in the UK and that social mobility is much more difficult to achieve there than in countries like Canada and the US. I know quite a few expats who mentioned this as one of their reasons for emigrating from the UK.

ExKiwilass

Yes but he was also bankrolled by money and family.

I definitely see what you're saying, I just think it's more of a thing in Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal than it is here.

ExKiwilass

I thought social mobility in the USA had got much worse recently?

dbd33

Maybe so, possibly ego and elitism peeter out somewhere in Alberta.

ExKiwilass

hahahah.

That's not what I hear about Calgary, interestingly.

dbd33

I buy and, indeed, we as a family demonstrate, the idea that mobility from working (tradesman) to middle (white collar member of a professional body) class is readily achieveable within Canada. Whether or not the same could be achieved given the same circumstances in the UK I can't say, I haven't been a penniless driven immigrant in the UK.

It aint gonna get us into the 1% here though, no more than it would in the UK or the US. In any of these countries the key to wealth and power is choosing one's parents well.

Almost Canadian

I am proof that it is possible in the UK too, but I accept no one will accept this.

MarylandNed

Well yes it's hard to get into the top 1% of wealthiest people anywhere. But that's not the point I'm making. I'm talking about the fact that in the UK you will never be accepted into certain social groups simply because of your background no matter how much money you make. Also that scenario is much more common in the UK than in Canada and the US.

MarylandNed

That's exactly a symptom of the point I'm making. Social mobility is more tied to wealth in the US and Canada. So obviously it becomes more difficult during hard economic times. In the UK, social mobility is also hindered by class.

dbd33

Nor in Canada. We can't become Canadians.

JonboyE

Yes we can. My passport says so.

Almost Canadian

This, I find, is how underachievers explain their underachievement rather than looking in the mirror.

I accept that it is not easy to marry into royalty but I imagine that there are very few that can say that their "social mobility" has been obstructed by such norms.

For the vast majority of people in the UK, class has very little bearing on their day to day lives. There are rich "working class" in the UK; there are poor "upper class" in the UK.

I do not speak with a "posh" English accent at all. I suspect that I sound like most posters that post here. I have been promoted in the legal profession in England, I have worked alongside some with "posh" accents that were not promoted because they were simply not good enough to justify the promotion. I have instructed barristers with "working class" accents; I have instructed barristers with "posh" accents. Their accents did not figure at all when I instructed them as I instructed them on merit and merit alone.

I spent time in the British Army. Other than the Guards, I know of no bar to inclusion or promotion based upon class at all.

I accept that money, in most countries of the world, enables one to obtain access to private tutors that is not available to those without money. Just as access to expensive houses and toys is also limited by available funds.

I would like to hear of any example where class (as opposed to funding) would hinder one's social mobility in the UK. Are you able to provide one?