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Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Old Jul 1st 2020, 8:21 pm
  #1  
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Default Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

sAs some people on here may know, I soft landed in Summer 2018 but only stayed briefly due to other commitments at the time and because I didn't have a long term Canadian address, I didn't apply for a PR card or a SIN. My original intention was to return later that year or in early 2019 however life threw a couple of rather large curve balls at me and I had to reschedule things a bit.

I have a PRTD in my passport and have been making preparations to return in early 2021 however I think I'm now faced with a real problem.

1. I cannot apply for a SIN without a PR card as my COPR was confirmed over 12 months ago.
2. PR cards are currently estimated at 98 days for a first issue and 287 days for an application or solemn declaration.
3. I cannot get a legal job in Canada without providing a SIN.
4. I cannot really get a decent fixed place to live without a job.

Therefore, assuming I would fall under the 287 day group for a PR card, that could leave me unable to work for almost a year or possibly even longer. That isn't really feasible for me and not just because of the financial implications of it all. Not being able to work for almost a year could be damaging to my career, not to mention my mental health.

Can anyone offer any advice here? I'm hoping I've made a mistake here and the reality isn't quite as bad as it seems to be right now. Tbh if this is the real situation then I may just need to rethink my plans to move back to Canada entirely.

Thanks in advance.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 8:50 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Just a couple of additional thoughts on this, can I submit an application to Sydney NS for the PR card from the UK via courier and specify a Canadian address to receive the card? Alternatively if they absolutely don't allow the latter then I could look at making a short scouting visit later in the year and submit the application in-land before returning a few months later and collecting the card when I arrive/when it shows up.

Although I know some people over there, one in particular, I didn't want to inconvenience anyone which was why I didn't provide any address details to Service Canada or the IRC when I did my landing trip. Needs must though and that's definitely preferable to bureaucracy potentially forcing into unemployment for the best part of a year.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 9:07 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

I urge you to read this link and then make your decision

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...dentifier.html
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 9:21 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
I urge you to read this link and then make your decision

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...dentifier.html
Thanks. So based on the below info unless I'm mistaken, I need to be present in Canada at the time of application and cannot submit the application from another country. I tick every other box on that list right now.

Are you eligible?

To be eligible for a PR Card, you must:
  • be a permanent resident of Canada;
  • be physically present in Canada;
  • meet the residency requirement (see Appendix A – Residency obligation);
  • not be under an effective removal order;
  • not be a Canadian citizen; and
  • not be convicted of an offense related to the misuse of a PR Card
So essentially in order to apply ahead of moving, I would need to travel there, submit the application using the Canadian correspondence address of my choice and then leave them to do their thing. I have a 1 year multi-entry PRTD so there is nothing to stop me from leaving for a few months after mailing in the application. In fact my original plan pre-Covid was to move to Canada around September of this year and then return home for Christmas with my family for a few days which was why I requested a multiple entry PRTD in the first place.

The only real downside to this that I can see so far is the several hundred quid it would cost me to fly there for a visit plus bed and board. However, considering what not being able to work for months could do to me and my finances, that's definitely the lesser of two evils. This is of course assuming that Canada no longer insists on 2 weeks of isolation upon arrival in a couple of months from now.

Last edited by DigitalGhost; Jul 1st 2020 at 9:30 pm.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 9:32 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Pretty much sums it up unless of course doing the bad thing.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Pretty much sums it up unless of course doing the bad thing.
What do you mean by the bad thing? I mean whether or not it's the right personal decision for me is something I wrestle with every day although these levels of bureaucracy plus Covid aren't really helping. Why a COPR is fine for getting you a PRTD, across the border, a state pension and various other things but not a SIN is beyond my level of comprehension but it is what it is really.

I know I've slightly complicated things for myself here but Canada certainly isn't making it easy or helping to alleviate any stress either.

Tbh I'd book a flight right now since I need to schedule time off from my current job anyway but I'd ideally be hoping to stay for less than a week and right now Canadian law will prevent me from doing that. Even though I'd be planning this trip for September-ish, I'm worried that Canadian quarantine on arrival procedures will still be in place by then.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 9:40 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

I will not advocate anyone to do something illegal or in a grey area but it is easy to figure out what I mean and I never went to post secondary school or have degrees.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 9:44 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
I will not advocate anyone to do something illegal or in a grey area but it is easy to figure out what I mean and I never went to post secondary school or have degrees.
OK I think I get what you're leaning towards but I assure you, I'm not planning to do anything dodgy.

FWIW, some of my friends have said before that I have quite a bit of formal education and skills on paper but I often seem to lack all common sense.

I've messaged a friend tonight to ask if he'd be OK with me using his address for a PR card application. If he doesn't get back to me in the next few weeks or says no then I'll need to look at an alternative. I just don't think that waiting until I arrive to settle before getting the ball rolling on the paperwork is going to be the way forward here sadly.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 10:59 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Yours would be a first issue I believe - you would need to supply them with an address in Canada... so then it would be 98 days.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 11:12 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
Yours would be a first issue I believe - you would need to supply them with an address in Canada... so then it would be 98 days.
Thanks I was hoping that would be the case and had always rested on that laurel until very recently since, outside of the current unusual situation, a first issue normally takes around 45 days. I'll add that until very recently I didn't realise you couldn't use a CoPR to get a SIN after your first year though. The thought never even occurred to me tbh.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...can-apply.html

This says that if you provide an address on landing then obviously you get your card free and automatically. I didn't provide an address and made my soft landing intentions clear.

The question on the processing time estimation tool suggests to me that 98 days only applies for new landing immigrants with cards issued at the border though and not to anybody who has applied later using an application form.

Did you submit a PR card application or solemn declaration?(required)
​​​​​​https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...ing-times.html

That's what's filling me with dread atm. Even under normal circumstances a renewal can take 4-6 months according to some forum posts etc. Having to wait almost double that time if I need it to get a job, a bank account and a place to stay just isn't feasible for me unfortunately.
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Old Jul 4th 2020, 7:59 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Just an update, I've done a bit of online research since I am really worried about this atm and apparently I can apply for work etc using my old and long since expired temp SIN as long as I have legal status and working permission and then just update the records with the relevant HR department when my permanent SIN is issued. Does anyone know if that's true?
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Old Jul 4th 2020, 11:47 pm
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Just an update, I've done a bit of online research since I am really worried about this atm and apparently I can apply for work etc using my old and long since expired temp SIN as long as I have legal status and working permission and then just update the records with the relevant HR department when my permanent SIN is issued. Does anyone know if that's true?
Where did you find the info? Was it a reputable site? SIN numbers are issued by Service Canada on behalf of ESDC. From their official website

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...pply.html#otp2
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 3:20 am
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Where did you find the info? Was it a reputable site? SIN numbers are issued by Service Canada on behalf of ESDC. From their official website

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...pply.html#otp2
The info was mainly from other forums but based on this reasoning:

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpce...um=1505&top=17

I have to admit that the logic behind it also makes sense because similarly to the UK NI system, a SIN is not proof of valid residency status in of itself. The key difference AFAIK is that Canada differentiates between temporary and permanent numbers by prefixing all temporary numbers with a 9 which is why PR's need to apply to get theirs changed if they had a temp one first. In the UK you always just keep the same one for life.

When I had my TWP renewed back in the day I didn't do anything about renewing my SIN because I was told that I didn't have to when I flagpoled at Buffalo and my employer at the time didn't seem to see any issue either. I just had to provide them with my new work permit when I got it and it also caused me no issues with filing taxes or getting PR.

Last edited by DigitalGhost; Jul 5th 2020 at 3:26 am.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 9:37 am
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
The info was mainly from other forums but based on this reasoning:

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpce...um=1505&top=17

I have to admit that the logic behind it also makes sense because similarly to the UK NI system, a SIN is not proof of valid residency status in of itself. The key difference AFAIK is that Canada differentiates between temporary and permanent numbers by prefixing all temporary numbers with a 9 which is why PR's need to apply to get theirs changed if they had a temp one first. In the UK you always just keep the same one for life.

When I had my TWP renewed back in the day I didn't do anything about renewing my SIN because I was told that I didn't have to when I flagpoled at Buffalo and my employer at the time didn't seem to see any issue either. I just had to provide them with my new work permit when I got it and it also caused me no issues with filing taxes or getting PR.
That realtes to temporary residents who are in Canada working and applied to extend their work permits. You don't have Implied Satus as you are considered a Permanent Resident.
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Old Jul 5th 2020, 9:46 am
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Default Re: Applying for first permanent SIN after soft-landing

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
That realtes to temporary residents who are in Canada working and applied to extend their work permits. You don't have Implied Satus as you are considered a Permanent Resident.
I understand what you're saying and it totally makes sense however surely someone who becomes a PR isn't usually expected to stop working until they have applied for and received a permanent SIN? In fact I wouldn't be totally surprised if some people never bother until they absolutely have to.

Surely therefore my current SIN is therefore acceptable until I'm issued with a new one? I know it's a stretch but I'm just trying to find the simplest route to solve this and cause as little disruption to my life at an already tumultuous time as possible. I am planning a short trip in September so I can get a headstart on applying for a PR card inland however I'm still not sure if my application would be subject to the first issue timeline or the much longer renewal waiting period.
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