Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/5290010.stm

Is this a uniquely British thing ? We have crime in Canada but our younger kids here are MUCH more disciplined then the UK IMO

Any thoughts?

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

Hi Ray

Unfortunately this is now how our society in the UK is going.

It would be so easy to blame this sort of thing on pc games, watching too much late night tv etc. but I think that most of this is caused by lack of parental control on young kids in the UK. Call me a snob but the "low income" parents who sit on the backsides all day seem to not give a s"£t about what their kids are doing.

Hubby and I are both hardworking and have high moral standards for our kids but feel that this puts in a slight minority - hence our decision to leave this country. I personally get fed up with working my butt off and having nice things annd then some little scroat either stealing or damaging my proerty.

I am not saying that all young kids are like this but as a parent I fear for what will happen to my kids.

My daughter is 12 in November and will be going to High School - alot of our High Schools have drugs in them and it only takes one little bit of peer pressure and there you have it.

I am not saying that Canada has no crime and that there are not any sort of incidences with minors but I do think that as Canadians you work to live (ie for what you want out of life) and us Brits still in the UK work to survive (ie just to get by) and therefore that allows families in Canada to have a more respectful family life than we do as you tend to be much more family orientated than the UK.

Oooops I am rambling now and could go on for hours as I am passionate about kids respecting themselves, elders and other peoples property.

Bet Canada doesn't have ASBO's (Anti-Social Behaviour Orders) !!!!!

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

Here in Halifax we have our share of "troubled yoofs", however from my experience they are quickly dealt with, the police have much more respect and suitable powers over here. If a certain area is attracting too many youths causing trouble, the police can slap an immediate effect no loitering bye law on an area, resulting in fines etc for the parents of any offending kids.

Kids in general are very respectful, I was on a late night bus a couple of weeks ago, a fight broke out between rival kids, and a middle aged lady shouted at them, they all stopped immediately and apologised to the lady for frightening her! What do you think would have happened in the UK?

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

Here is another item that happened during this last week.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/5288836.stm

These three girls were only having a laugh on the bus and when they were getting off just made a casual comment to this guy - one of the girls is in a critical condition.

If you pull a gang of youths up for any bad behaviour you are likely to either get a mouth full of abuse and they will damage your property and If you are really unlucky you might get both.

It is that bad on main roads that for instance my mom is 60 and in the dark nights my step dad won't let her go 150 yards to the corner shop to buy cigarettes in case some youths have a go at her.

I just cann't bear the thought that I am risking my kids being dragged into something like this if we stay in Britain.

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

I currently run a small village Post Office and General Store...well for another two weeks anyway, having sold it with completion on 8th September.
Most of the teenagers in the village are barred from the shop for various reasons - bad behaviour, verbal abuse etc. They ask for cigarettes and when you refuse because they are under 16, you get a mouthful of obscene language, you bar them, then get eggs thrown at your car. They gather outside shouting and swearing and drinking, you move them on and you get a brick through your window. But you can't prove who did it because it happened at 2.30 in the morning. Where do the parents think these kids are at this time of night? The Police are worse than useless. We had a public meeting recently about the kids, attended by Youth Workers, Councillors and the Police. The meeting was packed. Most of us walked out halfway through because of the lack of support from the "professionals" who blamed it on "not enough for the kids to do". I'm sorry, but we had even less to do in my day, as did my kids (all grown up now) but we didn't go around vandalising everything in sight. If we did anything wrong we'd get a slap from the neighbour and another when we got home because they'd told our parents. We knew right from wrong and had respect for each other. I have no doubt my kids swear sometimes, but they wouldn't dream of swearing at an older person or me in anger.
I have to stand there and dole out money for all these Giros for the parents, when it's obvious they are quite capable of working.

Kath

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

I live in Montreal

Shootings, muggings and murders every day.

These charmers are still on the loose

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2006/08/23/home-invasion.html?ref=rss

Another
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2006/08/22/hitrun-fatal.html?ref=rss

But the worst one is the guy murdered in broad daylight, stabbed in the back for telling a junkie to leave a woman alone, in a crowded downtown area on Wednesday night. He'd actually got back on his bike and was waiting at the lights. The criminal was on bail for 3 serious assaults already (typical in Canada) and being looked after by the salvation army on orders of the judge. Police are saying he is probably in a park or public space and they still havn't caught him

I'm not going to even bother with the dozens of other incidents this week but any one of the above crimes would have made it onto the tabloid front pages back in the UK. In canada, it's on page 7. Crime is really hyped up in the UK, it makes people feel things are worse than they really are.

No one in the UK seems to believe me, but the criminal justice system here is like a slap on the wrist, even murderers get 8 years, violent offenders get let out on bail. (see above crime)

I know I'm going to get lots of replies from posters telling me how wrong I am, but I live here so I should know.

Regards

Jonathan

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

Off the top of my head a 17 year old raped a 90 year old in Australia in the last week or so. Can't find the link now.

It is not just refined to the UK.

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

I know there is troubles here there everywhere....but I dont know, in the UK it just seemed that it was so common place the stuff that makes big news over here seemed to just be a daily occurrence in the UK that you would here it from the neighbour or work mate....not in a paper or on the news...because it was happening so much that papers and reporters dont have the time to cover every rape, murder, and ever thing thing else, I know this subject sends everyone on a rant....But having put up with youths and adults from all backgrounds doing all sorts of things that should have been dealt with by someone in the UK and getting told things like...well there's so much of it going on....and they are just being kids.....yep thats what I was told by the police when i called to report some kids vandalising the park behind where we used to live........and yet shortly after arriving here last fall, some kids drove their ATV through the Doctors office gardens..causing track marks in the grass...this caused a paper to report the INCIDENT...parents and kids apologised!!!!! it was a big deal...no way no matter what part of the UK would that kind of thing get that kind of reaction......Said it before and I stick by it...the UK has become Peter Pan Land ...the Kids Rule and do as they please ........I'm glad to be out of it.....and wish anyone else waiting to leave a speedy process!! ;)

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

It is awful in the UK. You are scared to even walk the shop. Even if I am walking with my daughter, you hear all sorts of stories of mums getting raped with their 2 year olds in the buggy. There are always youths hanging outside the shops etc shouting abuse and robbing from the shop.
I tell you one thing that shocked me when we visited Canada... may sound a little thing but did shock us!! When we visited the parks, there were lots of families there having bbq's on the parks, the bbq's were on the park already and people just brought there charcoal and food etc. We both comented on that would no way happen in the UK for a start the bbq's would have been vandelised or taken away.

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

At last, a sensible, accurate post. Large country, less people and crap media = you don't get to hear about it much over here. It can be just as violent, police are just as ineffectual, laws are stacked in favour of the criminals, just as they are in the UK. But hey, great scenery, so that's alright then. :rolleyes:

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

I have to disagree...sorry, but when did you last live in the UK..does it really matter how big or small the place you live....if you dont feel safe to walk to the shop.....its not media hype that makes people feel unsafe in the UK, its the in your face little sods mouthing off telling you what are you gonna do about it...as i said the media in the UK dont report it.....because its out of control

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

I think it depends where people have come from in the UK and their take on the comparisons...we lived in some very nice places but were always in touch with "da streets, innit".....some people seem to live in La La land where kids never bashed old grannies or stabbed each other for drugs or fought with foreign students or were part of criminal gangs involving - shock horror - foriegn people. Or where old people cowered in their home for fear of being bugled, raped or murdered. Your old relatives didn't ? Well ours did, factamundo. Everyday things like cars being vandalized, etc. Just the complete breakdown of law and order and lack of common decent standards of human behaviour, the level of violence and pure evil in mere children, the breeding of generations of chavs and worthless scum and animals masquerading as human beings.

It's a broad brush approach but what was the good old fashioned honest hard working "working class society" has become the worthless underclass, no ambition, no values, no work ethic, dragged down by bitterness and jealousy and an "entitlement" culture focused on fags, booze, the nashnul lottree innit, telly, fish'n'chips, and bingo. Thatcher tried to pour cheap heroin into their communities (the Liverpool social experiment of the early 80's) to keep the lolling masses quiet or preferably, so they'd self-medicate and overdose, but like rats, they now survive any attempt to cull them.

In a nutshell Canada has issues and problems with criminality, gangs, etc, drugs can be rife in certain communities, crime is seriously skewed by demographics and what skin colour you happen to have, public begging is not a pleasant experience to witness, but on the whole, plain nastiness occurs rarely and in isolation, and comes as a shock when it happens. But, when it does occur, it's often more violent and brutal than in the (Y)UK. Other than that, crime rarely touches the masses and one can go about everyday life without fear of burglary, beatings, vile snarling 'yoots', and pools of puke and egg fried rice on the streets.

Rich.

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

My immediate thought was...why is a four year old outside playing anyway? :confused: I would never let mine out at that age.

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

Er 7 months ago, back every 3 months, run a business in the UK, going back for 3 months this winter.

My family and friends all live in the UK, they never mention it.

So there you go

jonathan

Re: Almost another Jamie Bulger
 

My local park when i'm back in England, Trent Park Enfield, Middlesex. LAst time I was there 2 months back, the picnic tables looked fine, I even sat there for 2 hours and had some food, I didn't see any youths hanging around, shock horror. Go and check for yourselves if you can be bothered. I'll give you a whole lsit of other ones if you want.

How can you claim that it's better in canada if you don't live there,, also how can you know all of the UK. I was chatting to someone today in Montreal who got chased down the highway by a guy with a baseball bat recently.

Seriously I also think it's because Canada is never in the UK news, thats why we all have this idea it's a crime free utopia.