Pulaski

You aren't as fluent in English as you think you are?

Cynic

I watched the first few minutes (up to the part where the young girl told her "family" that she only eats halal food), I kind of lost interest at that point - sorry. I'll try and get back to it later.

I saw another programme on Dutch TV last week, where they filmed the new arrivals at an asylum centre. The asylum seekers had nothing positive to say, only that they weren't being given enough clothes, they needed to be given more money to buy cigarettes, the free internet connection that had been provided was not good enough for them to stream films and that the food in Holland was not nice.

OK - these aren't expats, but the Dutch people I watched it with were furious that these people had no gratitude and no interest in anything else except what they could get for nothing. My wife (Dutch) was speechless (not seen that for years!); she sent a text to the show suggesting the people be put back on the train/plane they just got off.

I'll be honest here; from the start when most were sympathetic with these people, I have not subsequently heard a single positive thing on this subject, from my extended Dutch family.

Casa Santo Estevo

Casa Santo Estevo

If you ah watched some more you would have seen a man from Damascus. He was quite succinct that his idea of paradise was back in the old Domascus, not in NL. In is time in NL he had not learnt so much Dutch. I liked the Chinese guy he was willing to learn open and funny.

Red_Wine_Fairy

That could have been (but it wasn't) me and my friend, who I met at the sports club our daughters attend. She's been living here a similar amount of time, and she is pretty much fluent. My conclusion? Nobody switches to her language (Turkish) when they hear her practice Dutch, but just about everyone will switch to English when they hear my accent. We talk in Dutch, but she and my old German neighbour (also didn't speak a word of English) are the only ones who always speak to me only in Dutch.

I prefer to speak Dutch with other incomers than with natives. Not only do I find their accents clearer, but they are considerably less judgemental when errors are made. I suspect your Dutch wife was gentle with you (love is deaf, and all that), but on a daily basis (with the exception of tourists who come bearing euros) they are on the whole a nation of merciless barstewards if a grammatical mistake is made by someone who's living here.

Most recently, I had a fun phonecall with the admin at my daughter's new school who called me just to tell me she couldn't understand my answerphone message - I asked that if she'd managed to take my daughter's name and our phone number from the dedicated ziekmelden answerphone, what was left to understand? They won't help you learn, and they won't hesitate to knock you for not making enough effort to learn.

I might be British, but it doesn't stop me sympathising with the holier-than-though attitude these human beings who happen to be seeking temporary asylum in the Netherlands are facing.

Cynic

I found that while I didn't live in Holland, most Dutch people spoke to me in English; that is except for my mother in law, she couldn't speak a word of it, so I started trying to speak it then. The moment I moved there, it changed; most expected me to learn the language, it really sank in the first time I needed a dentist. 30 years later, I still make mistakes, my wife still corrects me, but I get by (I no longer go to the Post Office and come back with a bag of sweets!). It's my accent that confuses most Dutch people, it's a mixed Southern England/Twentse; I have to remember to speak slowly - oh, and not forget to breath.

scot47

Why would anyone think they can live there with no Dutch language skills ? Say what you like, to me, this is still the "Colonialist mentality" at work !

Red_Wine_Fairy

It's worst than that, it's often a clash of two Colonialist mentalities. There is very little difference between the Dutch and English in that respect. People will learn Dutch, but as Cynic says, he's still be corrected after 30 years (and I'm sure his fluency is greater than mine, as I don't have a Dutch partner, never watch Dutch TV, etc). Like the UK, it's this 'people moving here should be eternally GRATEFUL to us' attitiude.

But it's like this, I'm a first generation expat, and I will never be Dutch enough, even if I ate stampot for every meal and cycled to my own funeral. I'm cool with this, seriously, I'm happy being English; I choose my friends here like I would at home, and don't waste time with those whose views are at either extreme (you should try every moment become just like us - there is no point trying because you will never be one of us). Life's too short.

But this is drifting off topic, which was to say don't bother uprooting your family to come here without Dutch and without a decent job contract in hand (like some seem to think it's doable). Language aside, this country is too expensive to set up here home without the guarantee of an income, and the emotional toll on those forced to move with you (kids) can be traumatic enough, without a jobless/homeless parent(s). In fact, I often wonder where people think they'll find a landlord who will let a home to an unemployed family? Couch surfing and room sharing is for singletons.

Cynic

LOL - it doesn't help that BBC1 is on the cable TV. We used to get BBC2 as well (going back a long time, they even used to re-broadcast British Forces TV in Holland, Coronation Street had a big following in Holland because of that). Watching Dutch TV (in those days, we only had Dutch 1, 2 and 3, which only broadcast in the evening) really helped me learn Dutch, there was nothing else to watch and I couldn't afford to party every night.

scot47

Yes, we forget that the Dutch used to have a large colonial empire.

Casa Santo Estevo

Watching Dutch TV plus having Dutch friends helped me with the language. Still watch Dutch TV via the dish, also Spanish TV via the antenna. Get involved with clubs neighbours etc. The language is a barrier, fortunately is less likely in NL as the Dutch language skills are excellent, so that helps get over the initial barriers, but do not expect them to tolerate you lack of Dutch for ever and a day.

RWF in your posts you do seem to write so assumptions. I am referring to You know nothing about how she, her friends and family got me to grasp Dutch. I would respectfully ask you not to make judgemental calls me or my family in the future.

scot47

The posts from hopefuls desperate to escape to the Netherlands have come to an end ? Has the message got through that NL is not the Land of Milk and Honey for the unskilled and illiterate in Dutch ?

Cynic

There are plenty looking; I suspect that people are now seeing Germany as the new land of milk and honey. Frau Merkel has a lot to answer for.

I read in yesterdays Tubantia that a coach load of asylum seekers on arrival at the reception centre in Goor, refused to get off the bus as it wasn't good enough (We willen niet in een sporthal wonen). Echt niet!!!

Casa Santo Estevo

This forum is nothing to do with those what are commonly called asylum seekers. It is about UKExpats wishing to live in another country.

Cynic

Fair point; but equally, I was responding to the previous post. I shall try to remember your opinion for the future.