Amazulu

Brussels

So very sad

But they have brought it on themselves through their left's use of multiculturalism as a means of social engineering

Worrying days for the west

knockoff nige

What's your solution?

Amazulu

The end of multiculturalism

Integration and assimilation is the only option

And a draconian justice system for assholes

GarryP

From the analysis around it seems that this was mainly a failure of the belgium security services. There is a particular area, Molenbeek, with high unemployment (30%), lots of crime, and a lot of muslims from morocco and tunisia.

It's been linked to many terrorist activities, but despite being an obvious motherload of intelligence and convenient conglomeration of threats, the belgium security services don't have it surveyed up the wazzoo. In part that's because belgium hasn't had a functional government for years as the two halves fight each other (they will probably split eventually).

The other thing to note is they picked the departure hall of an airport, rather than the NATO headquarters down the road. That's the culmination of what people have been saying for years - it's dumb to have a security check AFTER the big queues of people waiting to check in. It's actually just plain dumb to have big groups of people anyway - smooth flowing passengers and no security theatre is safer.

Swerv-o

I think it's interesting to ask the question of how the Molenbeek 'ghetto' has been allowed to grow in the way that it has. Belgium is an interesting place in that it has three 'official' languages - I would have said this would make it fairly tricky for a newcomer to integrate in the first place.

I remain to be convinced that this represents a failure of multiculturalism. I think there are some great examples of multiculturalism working well - I lived in Leicester for 14 years, and this was a thriving, multicultural hub. Lots of people from many different backgrounds living in reasonable harmony. I'd say Singapore is another good example. Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists and European religions all living in reasonable prosperity.

Of course it's that last word that is the key. IMO, 99% of muslims just want to get on and live their lives like everybody else. They want a new iPhone and a better car. They don't want to strap bombs to themselves and walk into cafes with them. But marginalising them and cutting them off from the opportunity to do this is likely to generate resentment which will become a feeding ground for radical views.

To succeed, multiculturalism has to provide an economic environment in which the newcomers can succeed in their adopted nation, else they will never feel invested in it.


S

moneypenny20

No it was some ****wits believing in a cloud fairy and not wanting to accept that other people believe in a different cloud fairy or don't believe at all. They only have to get it right once, everyone else has to get it right 100%, not going to happen. 'Blaming' security services, unemployment etc etc etc is bull imvho.

Beoz

That's one train of thought, and eventually leads to the root cause for this purpose ..... Islam. Does it get banned because of a few bad eggs? Well we ban other things because of a few bad eggs.

The second train of thought is looking at Swervo's opinion. Building enclaves of religious nuttiness, poverty, and isolation is certainly another root cause here. Singapore has the right idea. All areas and tower blocks need to have a mix of races. No single race can dominate an area.

Easy for Singapore where there is such a mix, but where its not so easy, Belgium, Australia, UK etc, perhaps immigrant races should not be allowed to build up communities in a single area. Of course that would be seen as racist by the loony left but they are your choices - Singapore does it so can't be all that bad.

moneypenny20

No and we shouldn't. I don't know what the answer is but 'analysts putting it down to a failure by..' really pisses me off.

Beoz

We ban recreational drugs because it affects a few.

moneypenny20

I know, how awesome is it that absolutely no one takes them any more.

Swerv-o

Yes, we banned guns as well - It's brilliant now that nobody gets shot any more...


S

Amazulu

Molenbeek is the failure of multiculturalism, yesterday was part of the fallout

Even if you don't think this is a problem with MC'ism, you have to accept that there is a huge disconnect between major parts of islam and western society

Too many nations went down the MC'ism route instead of integration and assimilation. Allowing large 3rd world, medieval-era believing populations into advanced, 1st world nations and then allowing them to carry on with their backward ideologies with little accountability was never going to end well

Change is coming. It could be done properly and orderly but the left's agenda is not over so I suspect that it won't

Beoz

The hipocracy of it all ..... some alignment needed

GarryP

Often I might agree with you, but this particular instance seems fair to lay at their door. Belgium has been a bloody mess for years on the governance front. The internal tensions have led to open attempts to split the country, including not having a working government for 541 days. During this whole time their eye seems to have been off the ball.

Somewhere like Mollenbeek, as I implied and Swervo commented, is a fertile breeding ground for discontent - which in this case found outlet in ISIS, unchecked. You can't divorce the aimless discontent from the outcome. There are two issues, the lack of governance and the fact that an area was allowed to become a 'forgotten land', right in Brussels.

The racists will jump in and say that it's the "muslims' fault", with the implicit appeal that we should exclude and 'build a wall' - as if that's going to solve anything. They will even say it's the "left's use of multiculturalism as a means of social engineering"- ignoring that the problem is the lack of engineering of society that's the issue. Multiculturalism that seeks to enrich society by different viewpoints and cultures, all working to a common goal - that works. Multiculturalism that dumping the immigrants needed to make the working age population large enough to pay pensions in a ghetto to fester doesn't - and it's what you get from bad governance, or no governance at all (which is a very libertarian viewpoint). Doing it right means they need to become part of the country, in this case belgium's first, tunisian second. And that's been missing.

Is religion a cancer at the base of this, selling division and divine mandate for violence? Sure, but that's hardly unique to islam - just look at the damage the evangelical zealots are doing hand in hand with the far right in the US. They are at least as massive a bunch of throwbacks. It's also something that takes a long time to cure and engagement with the 1bn islamic population of the planet in one way or another isn't negotiable. You HAVE to make as best a job of it as you can - which is where things have fallen down.

Populist governments have failed, again and again, to take the long term, strategic actions necessary - across a vast range of issues (not just the above multiculturalism). So, we end up again with answering the exam question of where the failure lies - and it's with governance, not leaving behind groups, and specifically in this case, security services not having their eye on the ball.

BadgeIsBack

Absolutely! Blaming security services is ludicrous : as I've alluded to before,security is not just simply some computer game model where by you push a load of buttons with guaranteed outcomes. The HUMINT side is still about engaging with people and listening to what they have to say. With many procedures it still takes someone to switch off..