Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:01 pm
#61
Where traffic lights rule
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Brighton QLD
Posts: 2,460
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:06 pm
#62
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,815
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:10 pm
#63
Where traffic lights rule
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Brighton QLD
Posts: 2,460
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Ha Ha you should have told me that before, we had tiler who charged $1300 for a job that took 1 and a bit days (thats for one guy).
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:21 pm
#64
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Hello all,
My name is Tom Blackett, and I'm the Online Editor (and occasional Spokesperson) for Visa Bureau.
Sue was kind enough to email one of my colleagues about the response that this was generating, and I thought it would be an opportunity to engage with the British Expats community.
First off, I'd like to say that we recognise that the tone of that article is wrong for the British Expats audience. It is almost relentlessly positive, and perhaps paints too bright a picture of life in Australia. (Translation, it's too much of a sales pitch!)
The British Expats community is not naive, nor is it interested in only the bright sides of emigrating to Australia. For that, we'd like to apologise.
In the interest of transparency, I would like to share our background research so that we can be entirely open about where those numbers came from. Interestingly, our original versions of this article, and in places where we use it in promotional material, the piece contains full citations. We removed them from the version on British Expats in the interests of brevity. It is an editorial decision that we regret! (You'll have to forgive the boring statistical explanation below.)
The figures in the tables are based on the exchange rate of $2.12 Australian to the pound, as provided by Oanda.com on August 2nd 2008. Oanda.com powers the exchange rate calculations on our site, among others.
Salary figures were sourced from Salaryexpert.com's August 2008 data, which is in turn based on industry and government publications. We also used an Australian State and Territory funded employment information source called MyFuture, found at my www.myfuture.edu.au
(If any British Expats members are interested, MyFuture is actually a great source for highly specific career, wage and qualification information! You can find detailed industry and occupation information at: www.communities.gov.uk.
I hope that addresses where we got our numbers. However, I also recognise the feeling that we have been misleading. We painted an over-rosy picture of life in Australia in an article that reads more like a sales pitch than the kind of neutral, honest exploration of life abroad that British Expats is known for. Again, for that we apologise.
I hope we haven't alienated the British Expats community with our rose-tinted article. (What's one worse than rose? Fuchsia-tinted?) As my colleague mentioned to Sue, the last thing we want to do is alienate the British Expats audience who have been both supportive of us and a tremendous resource to people migrating from the UK.
I'd also like to point out that I've posted a version of this response on our company blog at visabureau.com/blog. As always, our blog is open to comments and feedback - even if it means taking our lumps!
Mea Culpa!
My name is Tom Blackett, and I'm the Online Editor (and occasional Spokesperson) for Visa Bureau.
Sue was kind enough to email one of my colleagues about the response that this was generating, and I thought it would be an opportunity to engage with the British Expats community.
First off, I'd like to say that we recognise that the tone of that article is wrong for the British Expats audience. It is almost relentlessly positive, and perhaps paints too bright a picture of life in Australia. (Translation, it's too much of a sales pitch!)
The British Expats community is not naive, nor is it interested in only the bright sides of emigrating to Australia. For that, we'd like to apologise.
In the interest of transparency, I would like to share our background research so that we can be entirely open about where those numbers came from. Interestingly, our original versions of this article, and in places where we use it in promotional material, the piece contains full citations. We removed them from the version on British Expats in the interests of brevity. It is an editorial decision that we regret! (You'll have to forgive the boring statistical explanation below.)
The figures in the tables are based on the exchange rate of $2.12 Australian to the pound, as provided by Oanda.com on August 2nd 2008. Oanda.com powers the exchange rate calculations on our site, among others.
Salary figures were sourced from Salaryexpert.com's August 2008 data, which is in turn based on industry and government publications. We also used an Australian State and Territory funded employment information source called MyFuture, found at my www.myfuture.edu.au
(If any British Expats members are interested, MyFuture is actually a great source for highly specific career, wage and qualification information! You can find detailed industry and occupation information at: www.communities.gov.uk.
I hope that addresses where we got our numbers. However, I also recognise the feeling that we have been misleading. We painted an over-rosy picture of life in Australia in an article that reads more like a sales pitch than the kind of neutral, honest exploration of life abroad that British Expats is known for. Again, for that we apologise.
I hope we haven't alienated the British Expats community with our rose-tinted article. (What's one worse than rose? Fuchsia-tinted?) As my colleague mentioned to Sue, the last thing we want to do is alienate the British Expats audience who have been both supportive of us and a tremendous resource to people migrating from the UK.
I'd also like to point out that I've posted a version of this response on our company blog at visabureau.com/blog. As always, our blog is open to comments and feedback - even if it means taking our lumps!
Mea Culpa!
Whilst its admirable that you have spent the time explaining where the facts in the article came from, the issue remains that this was an article based on daydreaming and blatant false advertising.
Life in Aus isn't a dream, it's reality and it has its ups and downs. You are speculating on people's lives here, most if not all give up a life in their old country to start afresh in Australia, shifting their whole lives and their kids to the other side of the world. This is not some game, it's reality and the sooner people accept its not a walk in the park and there is no such thing as utopia, the more likely they are to manage their expectations and succeed in their new lives.
Yes,one could argue if people fall for this clap trap then they deserve to fall by their sword.
Yes one could argue everyone's viewpoint and opinion is valid and is in the eye of the beholder.
However your article is deliberately misleading and dishonest and plays on the emotional side of human nature, which when you translate this to people giving up their lives and moving to the other side of the world, it is nothing short of immoral and true "car salesman" advertising:curse:
We are talking about people's lives here. Being a business you have more of a responsibility to be truthful as opposed to an individuals viewpoint. That article represents your company and what you stand for. Did it not occur to you or whoever wrote this on behalf of your business, that once the migrant got here and saw the reality, they would then understand how deceitful your company / the article had been? Or doesn't it matter once they'd paid the fee and you'd churned them through
What is so distasteful about this is your deliberate attempt to gloss over real life issues. Those issues that make a difference such as earning potential, daily living / survival....
If you want credibility as a business you need to get your act together and tell the truth and be mindful of the effect such an article has on the vulnerable. Not all migrants can accept the reality hence some go back, which in itself can be soul destroying for those concerned.
Have some thought for the long term effects of such an irresponsible article. Maybe then will you gain respect from those about to emigrate - as well as those already here.
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:25 pm
#65
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Why are you being so defensive?
Did I say I wanted abuse, bad language and free for all?
Actually what I meant was that sometimes over moderation comes accross as dictatorial and "power drunk" - moderating needs moderation
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:40 pm
#66
Frequent Flyer Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,994
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Hi Tom,
I think it's great that you've taken the time to reply & even better that you have provided some link to these forums from your website.
As I said before VB, and anyone else are of course entitled to publish whatever opinion they see fit on this website - the problem here is with contentious data in this article, which there doesn't seem to be any willingness on your part to rectify.
I've finally been able to access the salary expert website, and the numbers are surprising. A quick check does indeed list the average midwife salary in Brisbane as $126k. It's funny, because looking at a midwife job on Queensland Health's website that same position is listed at $63383 - $67901. I'm sure you'll agree that's quite a discrepancy!
Then there's public holidays in your article - so NT residents enjoy 16 apparently. I can see where your bleary eyed researcher got their data from - they just didn't read it properly (* Regional observance only).
http://www.ocpe.nt.gov.au/legislation/holidays
Yes, 16 days in total but only if you happen to live in Darwin, Alice Springs, Katherine, Tennant Creek & Borroloola simultaneously. So all in all you'd actually be looking at 12, of which one falls on a Saturday.
I suggest Tom you seek out more credible sources for your salary data, because I haven't found another one that supports salaryexpert.com...it is perhaps just unfortunate you chose that one, hmmmm.
The right thing for you to do would be to re-write your promotional material, and this article. You can continue to use as much fluffy language as you see fit, just get the facts right.
B
I think it's great that you've taken the time to reply & even better that you have provided some link to these forums from your website.
As I said before VB, and anyone else are of course entitled to publish whatever opinion they see fit on this website - the problem here is with contentious data in this article, which there doesn't seem to be any willingness on your part to rectify.
I've finally been able to access the salary expert website, and the numbers are surprising. A quick check does indeed list the average midwife salary in Brisbane as $126k. It's funny, because looking at a midwife job on Queensland Health's website that same position is listed at $63383 - $67901. I'm sure you'll agree that's quite a discrepancy!
Then there's public holidays in your article - so NT residents enjoy 16 apparently. I can see where your bleary eyed researcher got their data from - they just didn't read it properly (* Regional observance only).
http://www.ocpe.nt.gov.au/legislation/holidays
Yes, 16 days in total but only if you happen to live in Darwin, Alice Springs, Katherine, Tennant Creek & Borroloola simultaneously. So all in all you'd actually be looking at 12, of which one falls on a Saturday.
I suggest Tom you seek out more credible sources for your salary data, because I haven't found another one that supports salaryexpert.com...it is perhaps just unfortunate you chose that one, hmmmm.
The right thing for you to do would be to re-write your promotional material, and this article. You can continue to use as much fluffy language as you see fit, just get the facts right.
B
Last edited by bcworld; Oct 2nd 2008 at 10:42 pm.
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:42 pm
#67
Frequent Flyer Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,994
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Can we please not turn this into yet another thread about moderation, inevitably leading to the thread being closed - this thread is linked to the visa bureau website remember!
Last edited by bcworld; Oct 2nd 2008 at 10:56 pm.
Oct 2nd 2008, 10:55 pm
#68
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Ironic really
Oct 2nd 2008, 11:05 pm
#69
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: On the edge of the Dandenongs, Melbourne
Posts: 2,387
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Sounds great.....I hope I can one day visit as I have never been to Victoria.
Something that is priceless and I could not get in Oz was seeing my dad watch his grandson (my son) play football in a match last week. Knowing that my dad now has years and years to enjoy his grandchildren is something I am truly happy about.....and didn't know I would miss.
I wish we had such nice birds flying around here.......sparrows just don't cut it.
Something that is priceless and I could not get in Oz was seeing my dad watch his grandson (my son) play football in a match last week. Knowing that my dad now has years and years to enjoy his grandchildren is something I am truly happy about.....and didn't know I would miss.
I wish we had such nice birds flying around here.......sparrows just don't cut it.
We are also fortunate that we live in a small village so have a lot of friends and a great community. Wherever we go in the local area we always bump into people we know the the girls have friends to play with. I'm sure that makes a big difference. Friends of ours are like surrogate aunties/uncles.
Last edited by The Crow; Oct 2nd 2008 at 11:08 pm.
Oct 2nd 2008, 11:25 pm
#70
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 882
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
Yes.........totally agree that the article and the website are utter b*!!*cks.
The chap who posted some sort of half arsed apology/explanation has just dug himself one large hole.
Does he realise that in doing so he has confirmed what us folks who have been there & done that in Oz are telling everyone ?.....
Oct 2nd 2008, 11:27 pm
#71
(^v^)
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: North East Tasmania
Posts: 2,199
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
still say the article should be removed it is full of crap.
Oct 2nd 2008, 11:32 pm
#72
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 882
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
I agree that not having grandparents and uncles/aunties here is a BIG downside. We are lucky that my Mum visits for around 5 weeks every year and Adam's parents are due for two months over Christmas/school holidays. So, our life here had to be exceptional to overcome this - and luckily for us it is.
We are also fortunate that we live in a small village so have a lot of friends and a great community. Wherever we go in the local area we always bump into people we know the the girls have friends to play with. I'm sure that makes a big difference. Friends of ours are like surrogate aunties/uncles.
We are also fortunate that we live in a small village so have a lot of friends and a great community. Wherever we go in the local area we always bump into people we know the the girls have friends to play with. I'm sure that makes a big difference. Friends of ours are like surrogate aunties/uncles.
Out of interest, would you say the village you live in leans to the left or right politically ?...........where I was in the Illawarra it was sort of just left of Stalin.....
Oct 2nd 2008, 11:34 pm
#74
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
After reading all the posts on this thread I had to go and take a look at the article on the home page and the salaryexpert.com website.
Yes.........totally agree that the article and the website are utter b*!!*cks.
The chap who posted some sort of half arsed apology/explanation has just dug himself one large hole.
Does he realise that in doing so he has confirmed what us folks who have been there & done that in Oz are telling everyone ?.....
Yes.........totally agree that the article and the website are utter b*!!*cks.
The chap who posted some sort of half arsed apology/explanation has just dug himself one large hole.
Does he realise that in doing so he has confirmed what us folks who have been there & done that in Oz are telling everyone ?.....
Personally Aus is the best thing that ever happened to us and for many of our friends. However some have found that Aus isn't all they thought it would be and frankly these kinds of articles really do lead people up the garden path.
Migration is not a picnic and there are as many pro's and cons just as there are if you live in the UK. To pretend otherwise is foolhardy and a business that promotes migration should know better.
Last edited by sonlymewalter; Oct 2nd 2008 at 11:39 pm.
Oct 2nd 2008, 11:38 pm
#75
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Would You Be Better Off In Oz? - Misleading
I'm not so sure Possums. I reckon freedom of speech is imperative and by leaving it on there people can see the sort of business they are dealing with in terms of its ethics.
That "advert" speaks volumes about that company.
It shows there are more sharks out of the water than in it
That "advert" speaks volumes about that company.
It shows there are more sharks out of the water than in it