Why do you want to (or did) become a citizen ?
Sep 6th 2008, 2:51 pm
#136
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 3,453
Re: Why do you want to (or did) become a citizen ?
Well now if you had read what I had said, or maybe you have and have chosen to misquote me? What I actually said was in relation to a society lacking moral fibre and integrity and, yes of course, you. Would the fact that you lack these traits cause a society to decline? Of course not, but I suppose you think it helps your arguement if it looks as if I said that.
Of course it is. That it takes me 3 hours to get a pint ot milk...
In my original point, which I believe I have stated a number of times now and it's getting boring repeating it, I stated that it was wrong, IMHO, for anyone to knowingly swear an Oath of Alegiance to any country when they have no intention of upholding that oath or keeping that promise. How does that differ in a mixed marriage? Does being in a mixed marriage mean that you no longer have to keep your promises or uphoald any Oath you have taken, or have any degree of integrity?
I don't believe I have ever stated that to be loyal to one country means you have to forget where you come from? If I have kindly show me where?
Yes in an extreme situation where both countries were at war then you would have a very tough choice to make, but then in my eyes I have made that choice when I choose to Swear that Oath of Alegiance to, my now, home country.
Just because you think that it is fine to lack integrity does not mean that everyone else thinks so, or that it is right to do so.
Of course it is. That it takes me 3 hours to get a pint ot milk...
In my original point, which I believe I have stated a number of times now and it's getting boring repeating it, I stated that it was wrong, IMHO, for anyone to knowingly swear an Oath of Alegiance to any country when they have no intention of upholding that oath or keeping that promise. How does that differ in a mixed marriage? Does being in a mixed marriage mean that you no longer have to keep your promises or uphoald any Oath you have taken, or have any degree of integrity?
I don't believe I have ever stated that to be loyal to one country means you have to forget where you come from? If I have kindly show me where?
Yes in an extreme situation where both countries were at war then you would have a very tough choice to make, but then in my eyes I have made that choice when I choose to Swear that Oath of Alegiance to, my now, home country.
Just because you think that it is fine to lack integrity does not mean that everyone else thinks so, or that it is right to do so.
But life is short. So, you really enjoy your oath of allegiance, take a full part with full-meaning, enjoy the view from the high ground and I'll carry on meandering down the path of expediency and family first.
Sep 6th 2008, 8:41 pm
#138
In Perth & Loving it...
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 539
Re: Why do you want to (or did) become a citizen ?
If having integerity is taking the moral high ground, I'm happy to take it. 
Really couldn't care less what you mean by this other than to re-quote some of this from John Stuart Mill:
".......is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Really couldn't care less what you mean by this other than to re-quote some of this from John Stuart Mill:
".......is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Sep 6th 2008, 9:30 pm
#139
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 3,453
Re: Why do you want to (or did) become a citizen ?
And also little surprise that justification would be sought from a 19th Century philospher.
Sep 6th 2008, 9:37 pm
#140
Frequent Flyer Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,994
Re: Why do you want to (or did) become a citizen ?
"like, we should like, support our president, no matter what he does"
....ordinary born & bred dinky di true blue Aussies are permitted to dissent, you seem to think conferred citizens should be treated differently - that is contrary to the ideals of Australian citizenship.
Sep 6th 2008, 10:28 pm
#141
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 3,453
Re: Why do you want to (or did) become a citizen ?
Your last point is interesting. There is something deliciously ironic in that British migrants who are born in the UK are considered (or consider themselves) to be loyal servants of Britain and yet they are quiite happy to dump the country at the drop of a hat.
It's funny but those that bleat about allegiance, loyalty, integrity, the swearing of oaths and selfless actions would wave goodbye to England for the self-serving desires of living in a sunny climate or earning a bit more money.
But no doubt this is irrelevant because it's the swearing of the oath that matters!
Sep 6th 2008, 11:28 pm
#142
In Perth & Loving it...
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 539
Re: Why do you want to (or did) become a citizen ?
I still can't for the life of me work out how anyone who has posted in this thread lacks integrity. You seem to be a fan of blind unquestioning patriotism at all costs. Reminds me of some bimbo I saw being interviewed prior to the last US election.....
"like, we should like, support our president, no matter what he does"
....ordinary born & bred dinky di true blue Aussies are permitted to dissent, you seem to think conferred citizens should be treated differently - that is contrary to the ideals of Australian citizenship.
"like, we should like, support our president, no matter what he does"
....ordinary born & bred dinky di true blue Aussies are permitted to dissent, you seem to think conferred citizens should be treated differently - that is contrary to the ideals of Australian citizenship.
I think he assumes that I lack integrity because I would swear the oath but wouldn't defend the nation blindly.
Your last point is interesting. There is something deliciously ironic in that British migrants who are born in the UK are considered (or consider themselves) to be loyal servants of Britain and yet they are quiite happy to dump the country at the drop of a hat.
It's funny but those that bleat about allegiance, loyalty, integrity, the swearing of oaths and selfless actions would wave goodbye to England for the self-serving desires of living in a sunny climate or earning a bit more money.
But no doubt this is irrelevant because it's the swearing of the oath that matters!
Your last point is interesting. There is something deliciously ironic in that British migrants who are born in the UK are considered (or consider themselves) to be loyal servants of Britain and yet they are quiite happy to dump the country at the drop of a hat.
It's funny but those that bleat about allegiance, loyalty, integrity, the swearing of oaths and selfless actions would wave goodbye to England for the self-serving desires of living in a sunny climate or earning a bit more money.
But no doubt this is irrelevant because it's the swearing of the oath that matters!
Sep 7th 2008, 7:45 am
#143
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: An expat Aussie trying to understand why anyone wants to move to Oz.
Posts: 485
Re: Why do you want to (or did) become a citizen ?
I find it amusing that people put so much emphasis on citizenship. It is even funnier when they make you do tests that the majority of natural born citizens couldn't pass! Citizenship is nothing more than a document of convenience in this age of globalisation. I wouldn't go to war for any of the countries I'm a citizen of.
