What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
Feb 3rd 2007, 7:12 am
#46
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 629
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
I find it insulting when you say that "monkeys could get in" to tertiary education. As a high school teacher, only the top 30 per cent can get into uni courses and it is very diffilcult to get into medicine, law etc. believe me, after teaching over here (and seeing the sub standard work produced in the GSCE's and how many teachers actually do the work for the kids) I believe the schooling system in Oz is actually quite rigorous. The fact that so many professionally qualified Australians work overseas in the UK and elsewhere and do so successfully is testamount to my point. If our uni's were substandard (and I am sure there are a few that are pretty crap - maybe you worked at one of them?) I do not believe that overseas employers would be prepared to take them on.
OK, so actual monkeys probably could not get in, but very sub-standad Australian students do. Not an insult - just true. Please don't pretend you don't know this - it is not exactly a secret! I have taught Uni students on both sides of the world. The Australian ones have been the worst - far worse that the good Asian students and somewhat worse than British students. Australian students also had a far weaker work ethic, relative to other students. The standard of English among regular Australian high-school leavers, for one, is worrying. I worked at a "Group of 8" Australian University (top 8 in Aus that is - none makes the top eight internationally) - a clue in in my 'Location:'. You are right in saying that there are a lot of very substandard universities, but more to the point the school leavers are the worry. Some of the Unis - a small number - have a good international reputation for research (e.g. ANU). My comments about school leavers were echoed widely among lecturers. I had to teach many native English-speaking students some rather basic English before I could get down to business. The student award winners in my faculty were almost invariably from Hong Kong, yet those students were in the minority. Of course there are bright sparks. I'm talking averages.
I blame the teachers.
Feb 3rd 2007, 7:17 am
#47
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 629
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
Yes I THOUGHT Perth was boring, I wasn't bored per se, I just thought there was more "excitement" out there, and so I moved to London to do the two year work thing. Now, I realise that I was wrong and that I am a Perth girl through and through - do not like the Rat Race, crowds of people (shopped in Covent Garden last weekend - what a nightmare!) or gloomy weather. Nor do I like living in a shoe box and paying 1/4 of my after tax income for the privilege. That's not to say that there isn't things I like about the UK.
Feb 3rd 2007, 8:38 am
#48
Melbourne Australia
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,169
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
Me too.. big house.. beach at the end of the street, and yet there is just something missing... at times I struggle to know what it is that's not right.
I sit in my garden and see the parrots in the trees and listen to the surf rolling in and think this is paradise.. then I do the same the next day, and the next, and the next... and that's when it hits home. Some British cities are bloody hard work to live in, but at least there is life there....
I can think of nowhere better to retire to than where I live now.
I sit in my garden and see the parrots in the trees and listen to the surf rolling in and think this is paradise.. then I do the same the next day, and the next, and the next... and that's when it hits home. Some British cities are bloody hard work to live in, but at least there is life there....
I can think of nowhere better to retire to than where I live now.
Its a reason people need to really think about the move on an individual basis - its not okay to be in holiday mode, you have to think of day in day out routines.
Sometimes too much of paradise can feel like hell - like too much Chocolate. We chose a nice compromise it has everything we need and more and the downsides we can live with.
Feb 3rd 2007, 11:05 am
#51
Gutter Gob!!
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 13,098
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
That is why we couldn't move all the way back to NZ (that and interpol but thats another story).
Its a reason people need to really think about the move on an individual basis - its not okay to be in holiday mode, you have to think of day in day out routines.
Sometimes too much of paradise can feel like hell - like too much Chocolate. We chose a nice compromise it has everything we need and more and the downsides we can live with.
Its a reason people need to really think about the move on an individual basis - its not okay to be in holiday mode, you have to think of day in day out routines.
Sometimes too much of paradise can feel like hell - like too much Chocolate. We chose a nice compromise it has everything we need and more and the downsides we can live with.
Feb 3rd 2007, 12:19 pm
#53
Banned
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 210
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
Interesting how you cannot let in one criticism in when it comes to Aus, yet fire both barrels when it comes to your host country. I could rebutt you points with many examples, but I'll only bother with the academic one.
OK, so actual monkeys probably could not get in, but very sub-standad Australian students do. Not an insult - just true. Please don't pretend you don't know this - it is not exactly a secret! I have taught Uni students on both sides of the world. The Australian ones have been the worst - far worse that the good Asian students and somewhat worse than British students. Australian students also had a far weaker work ethic, relative to other students. The standard of English among regular Australian high-school leavers, for one, is worrying. I worked at a "Group of 8" Australian University (top 8 in Aus that is - none makes the top eight internationally) - a clue in in my 'Location:'. You are right in saying that there are a lot of very substandard universities, but more to the point the school leavers are the worry. Some of the Unis - a small number - have a good international reputation for research (e.g. ANU). My comments about school leavers were echoed widely among lecturers. I had to teach many native English-speaking students some rather basic English before I could get down to business. The student award winners in my faculty were almost invariably from Hong Kong, yet those students were in the minority. Of course there are bright sparks. I'm talking averages.
I blame the teachers.
OK, so actual monkeys probably could not get in, but very sub-standad Australian students do. Not an insult - just true. Please don't pretend you don't know this - it is not exactly a secret! I have taught Uni students on both sides of the world. The Australian ones have been the worst - far worse that the good Asian students and somewhat worse than British students. Australian students also had a far weaker work ethic, relative to other students. The standard of English among regular Australian high-school leavers, for one, is worrying. I worked at a "Group of 8" Australian University (top 8 in Aus that is - none makes the top eight internationally) - a clue in in my 'Location:'. You are right in saying that there are a lot of very substandard universities, but more to the point the school leavers are the worry. Some of the Unis - a small number - have a good international reputation for research (e.g. ANU). My comments about school leavers were echoed widely among lecturers. I had to teach many native English-speaking students some rather basic English before I could get down to business. The student award winners in my faculty were almost invariably from Hong Kong, yet those students were in the minority. Of course there are bright sparks. I'm talking averages.
I blame the teachers.
If you have evidence of widespread corruption and incompetence by politicians, please post here as I would be interested to read it. Maybe you don't because it might not be true? I am talking about Australia having an overall problem with these issues, not isolated incidents which all countries have.
I am not a university lecturer but I understand your point about english language competence. For many courses, the entrance requirement for english is only 50% which is too low in my opinion. I have also noticed that english teachers in the UK spend a lot of time on grammar and the like. In Australia, this is presumed to be done in primary school. In England, there is also a lot of emphasis on Shakespeare which kids so not seem to like. The English language is very different now so I do not see the point in forcing year 9's to read The Tempest. Kids are spoon fed in the UK - they will often do nothing all lesson unless you write the essay for them. They have very few assignments to hand in. When I taught english to year 11 and 12 students in Australia they had many assignments, one after the other, with strict due dates - in the UK, the dates are very general and I have often heard teachers telling students to hand their work in so the teacher can correct it so it can be re-done! This is cheating in my book. Many students think this is your job as a teacher to tell them what to write and spell it out for them, rather than think for themselves. Mind you, this is in comprehensives, might be very different in private schools.
You say that Asian students have a better work ethic than australian students - same thing is happening in the UK. British and Australian students can be lazy because they have been born into a well to do society where they are spoilt. Asian students are pushed by their parents, their parents have immigrated to Australia and want their children to achieve etc.
Feb 3rd 2007, 12:23 pm
#54
Banned
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 210
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
Apart from some nice old buildings there is nothing that interesting about London. People do the same old stuff. Maybe if you are a left wing academic or a Russian tycoon or mover and shaker type investment banker London is interesting but once you have done all the cool touristy stuff, life here is just plain hard work.
Feb 3rd 2007, 2:06 pm
#55
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
I live it. I earn well above the average salary, in an 'easy' job, I try to keep it a secret (!) - have a beautiful wife, 1 beautiful daughter and another on the way. I have my health and fitness, I'm getting fitter!, and Chief has hers.
We own a little house on 1 acre, 2 oldish cars, pool and deck
, in a community, with village amenities - pub, vineyards, shops, miles of unspoilt walks with vibrant, bright, focused and interesting people. We are 50mins from the city and all that brings us - it creates opportunities for work and cultural (ie my wife's dancing and teaching) activities. We're not far from nature in the Dandenongs which are great in summer, nice in winter.
I'm a part-time firefighter with options to go fulltime, and have sport, arts, culture, and fun, interesting mates on tap. There is never a dull moment.
cheers
B
We own a little house on 1 acre, 2 oldish cars, pool and deck
, in a community, with village amenities - pub, vineyards, shops, miles of unspoilt walks with vibrant, bright, focused and interesting people. We are 50mins from the city and all that brings us - it creates opportunities for work and cultural (ie my wife's dancing and teaching) activities. We're not far from nature in the Dandenongs which are great in summer, nice in winter. I'm a part-time firefighter with options to go fulltime, and have sport, arts, culture, and fun, interesting mates on tap. There is never a dull moment.
cheers
B
Feb 3rd 2007, 3:49 pm
#56
Melbourne Australia
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,169
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
OMG my life would be over
If it was just a matter of a few spots I would just call in sick after an indulgement but apparently its more serious - sad case
Feb 3rd 2007, 5:10 pm
#58
Banned
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Angle vale Sth Australia
Posts: 5,353
Re: What is "the Australian dream" and are you living it????
I live it. I earn well above the average salary, in an 'easy' job, I try to keep it a secret (!) - have a beautiful wife, 1 beautiful daughter and another on the way. I have my health and fitness, I'm getting fitter!, and Chief has hers.
We own a little house on 1 acre, 2 oldish cars, pool and deck , in a community, with village amenities - pub, vineyards, shops, miles of unspoilt walks with vibrant, bright, focused and interesting people. We are 50mins from the city and all that brings us - it creates opportunities for work and cultural (ie my wife's dancing and teaching) activities. We're not far from nature in the Dandenongs which are great in summer, nice in winter.
I'm a part-time firefighter with options to go fulltime, and have sport, arts, culture, and fun, interesting mates on tap. There is never a dull moment.
cheers
B
We own a little house on 1 acre, 2 oldish cars, pool and deck
, in a community, with village amenities - pub, vineyards, shops, miles of unspoilt walks with vibrant, bright, focused and interesting people. We are 50mins from the city and all that brings us - it creates opportunities for work and cultural (ie my wife's dancing and teaching) activities. We're not far from nature in the Dandenongs which are great in summer, nice in winter. I'm a part-time firefighter with options to go fulltime, and have sport, arts, culture, and fun, interesting mates on tap. There is never a dull moment.
cheers
B
mm
Feb 3rd 2007, 6:03 pm
#59
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Feb 3rd 2007, 6:10 pm
#60
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: at the bottom of a wine glass
Posts: 28,176
