Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12278919)

I happen to know a lot about shoddy workmanship done for council by private business from our local area where a leisure complex in Dumfries was built entirely by a private contractor, Kier Construction - who designed it, built it, did the inspections, turned it over to the council and took their money. Serious faults started to appear, Kier stonewalled on compensation and dragged out court proceedings which council had to end when the legal bill got over £1 mill. A few years later the complex has been almost taken down and rebuilt at an extra cost to council of around £10 mill. A temporary swimming pool and ice rink had to be built at a cost of £3 mill while the building was closed for a few years.

Dumfries DG One leisure complex defects 'beggar belief' - BBC News

Originally Posted by GarryP (Post 12278924)

Doncha know that construction businesses are the hard working, trustworthy individuals and local government are the corrupt layabout criminals?

It says so in the far right handbook, so it must be true ....

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12278919)

Something is far wrong, agreed?

Who is talking design? The issue is what the client specifies and what the contractor delivers. Camden Council specified materials different to what the same company responsible for Grenfell Towers delivered. They are urgently removing the cladding and will see the firm in court.

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12278919)

I happen to know a lot about shoddy workmanship done for council by private business from our local area where a leisure complex in Dumfries was built entirely by a private contractor, Kier Construction - who designed it, built it, did the inspections, turned it over to the council and took their money. Serious faults started to appear, Kier stonewalled on compensation and dragged out court proceedings which council had to end when the legal bill got over £1 mill. A few years later the complex has been almost taken down and rebuilt at an extra cost to council of around £10 mill. A temporary swimming pool and ice rink had to be built at a cost of £3 mill while the building was closed for a few years.

Dumfries DG One leisure complex defects 'beggar belief' - BBC News

Schools in Scotland built under PPI arrangements have developed serious faults and collapsed walls caused death.

Edinburgh school crisis consortium facing million-pound penalty - Edinburgh Evening News

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12278929)

I've 2 friends who are high up in council - one heads up the leisure side and one heads up the building services side. Kier would not admit liability even though they knew they were culpable; they told the council they would drag it out in courts for years and years; they had the budget to do this, the council didn't. The swimming pool had serious leaks, panels fell off walls inside and out, insulation wasn't put where it should be, the heating system often broke down, the swimming pool was even built 24.8 metres long* so no competitions could be held there, records couldn't be recognised..................

* some clever bunny at Kier didn't allow for the tiles to be put on - it was 25 metres from wall to wall without the tiles!!

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12279021)

Clients don't specify especially in the case of a council. Councils don't have the breadth of staff to include a facade consultant. That's why they contract a company to do that for them.

You should read beyond the first two paragraphs about the cladding re-fit in Camden. The facade contractors insist they installed what was designed which was also signed off by Camden's building control, and Camden Council are currently seeking legal advice and conducting testing.

But hey, all the drama is in the first two paragraphs - no point ruining beyond that and reading the detail



Joys of construction my friend. After a project, everyone from the client down makes claims. It's all about following the communication and delivering what was communicated. Sounds like your council were a little inexperienced. Hey ho lesson learned.

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12279033)

Well the police are today saying that charges from manslaughter up could be brought. We'll have to wait and see.

Police have said they are considering manslaughter charges in relation to the deadly Grenfell Tower blaze as they revealed that the insulation and cladding tiles at the building failed safety tests.
Det Supt Fiona McCormack, who is overseeing the investigation, said on Friday that officers had established the initial cause of the fire was a fridge-freezer and that it was not started deliberately.

She said they were trying to get to the bottom of why the fire grew so quickly and tests had pointed towards the cladding using aluminium composite tiles and the insulation behind it. Investigators will now seek to establish whether the use of these materials was illegal.

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12279021)

Joys of construction my friend. After a project, everyone from the client down makes claims. It's all about following the communication and delivering what was communicated. Sounds like your council were a little inexperienced. Hey ho lesson learned.

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12279051)

So let me get this right. The £10 mill plus repair cost and 2 to 3 year closure of our leisure centre is a 'joy of construction', my council is at fault because they are a 'little inexperienced' and Kier just deliver what they are asked to?

Actually, knowing quite a bit about this from my friend (and you knowing zilch about the circumstances) you are talking nonsense.

Kier eventually blamed the consultants WM Saunders Partnership and the 2 of them coughed up part of the £10 mill repair bill and neither are allowed to set foot on the site, another contractor has been doing the work.

I'd hasten to add that council building services staff has been cut to the bone because of budget restraints and government won't let council increase council taxes but that's another matter.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12279108)

Ironically, this is like an even duller form of tennis

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12279514)

Add something intelligent or disappear to livelier threads - it's your choice, nobody is forcing you to discuss what is a very serious issue.

Overnight 5 tower blocks in Camden, Swiss Cottage area, were evacuated over serious fire safety concerns - i.e. similar materials used and issues to Grenfell.

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12279065)

Ha ha. Saunders. I did some work for them many years ago. Useless mob. I would hazaard a guess it was due to the design software they used..... in fact I would almost be prepared to put my house on it. I've seen kilometre high columns accidently designed and delivered to the design team with that shit.

But that's what happens. Private sector owners too I might add. They want to recover some costs, they hit the contractor and the contractor hits the sub contractors and consultants.

Mistakes happen.

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12279042)

Of course. Cops doing their job. They will probably end up charging an organisation, the question is who. ..... and it will never hold up in court.

I remember when a few panels fell out of the Gherkin luckily missing anyone below.

But lets say it took out 5 bankers having lunch.

The sad part is you bigoted lefties wouldn't give a shit just because they are bankers. Gotta love the hypocrisy of it all.

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12279515)

It was serious in the slightest. It was publicity stunt by the Camden council. They don't even know what the panels are. Nice try though. You just love the drama don't you.

Originally Posted by OzTennis (Post 12278327)

"You people". :rofl:

Recent polls in the UK have shown that a majority of people would pay 1p more income tax if it's spent on things like the underfunded NHS, education and public housing. 'Your ilk' are out of touch with that and use jargon like unnecessary welfare, wasteful NHS, too much red tape and bureaucracy.

When one considers the top rate of income tax used to be 98% on unearned income and 83% on earned income and it is now 45% for over £150K there's clearly a bit of upside on the top rate (77% in favour of that) and people would accept basic rate increases if it was used for public services.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7636846.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7770581.html