lapin_windstar

But that's not the argument that's being put forward; the true argument is that the benefit to society of prohibition is outweighed by its cost.

ponyrama

The medically supervised injecting centre in Sydney was set up to reduce the number of overdose related deaths in the inner city area. It worked. Its still working. Its threatened with having its funding pulled every year because the same argument that its 'wrong' to allow people to inject illegal drugs in a safe environment is touted by the 'public'. But it saves lives. Everyday. Without clogging up Emergency Departments, Police Morgues etc etc. I wonder what the same people would say if NSW Health said 'we are no longer going to treat anyone who presents to ED who has overdosed cos we cant condone the use of illegal drugs?'

To be honest I don't actually care whether you legalise, decriminalise, prohibit or shoot to kill. I just believe that everyone has a right to access good quality health care and be treated for their condition whatever it may be, and have a choice about the treatment that is right for them. Governments could afford to do that if they stopped locking drug users up and starting helping them to achieve drug free lives which may mean a period of maintenance to achieve stabilisation on the particular drug that they are addicted to. Which would mean safe, quality controlled supplies of that substance licensed for use in the treatment of addiction.

Maybe we should make eating sugar illegal cos its harmful for diabetics, or ban peanuts cos some people are seriously allergic and might die - then if they decide to eat them regardless - refuse to treat them cos well its illegal and you shouldn't have done it in the first place.

Tea is an interesting one - lets ban that as well. It was banned - a hundred years ago, and there used to be illegal tea houses where scum and ruffians would go to ingest very strong thick tar like quantities of the stuff and then be really high and slightly psychotic for days on end much to the disgust of the posh people. We have created the problems we now have in today's society - its very naive to think we can fix them by just saying 'dont do it - its naughty cos we say its naughty and if you do it we are going to lock you up, make your life even crapper and make it even harder for you to solve the issues you had that led you to do the naughty thing in the first place.'

People who fart in lifts should be locked up as well!

MartinLuther

With respect to doing a trial. Aren't there a couple of places in Aus that are already trialing drug laws. Canberra springs to mind

iamthecreaturefromuranus

You have absolutely no way of proving that claim, as you have no way of knowing what society would be like if there was ready access to class A drugs from your local corner shop.

sel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3592877.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...rugs-john-gray

Wol

Correct, of course. But it *is* possible to see what the ready supply of drugs does to society now.

Gang wars and huge numbers of murders and police assassinations in Mexico, Columbia and the like, muggings and burglaries "at home" (perhaps one of the present/past police officers would know what proportion ?) clogging of emergency and medical facilities and the tying up of large amounts of police and courts' time. These are recognised facts, and have been costed in various studies.

I have never knowingly been offered - nor have I used - illegal drugs (actually, come to think of it - that dreadlocked guy in Jamaica probably wasn't offering me suncream....) but I can recognise when a cause is lost. The real question is whether to accept that or to see if legalisation mitigates the adverse effects on the majority of society that is violated because of the illegal market.

iamthecreaturefromuranus

...and if we do legalise it, and it turns out to be a disaster of appalling proportions as I believe it would be, then what. Try to enforce a ban again?... that would be trying to get the genie back in the bottle.

Wol

...and it's *in* the bottle now?

ponyrama

Not that I know of. I'll ask Kev next time I see him.

Wol

Every time I see Dear Leader on telly - which is every three minutes it seems - I wonder exactly what he's ingesting.

iamthecreaturefromuranus

In comparison to everything/anything being freely available. Yes.

We have both said that we have never been offered class A drugs... when was the last time you had a beer or a cig?
Free availability would increase the market enormously and unless anybody can make an argument as to why that's a 'good idea' when we have spent decades attempting to do just the opposite for tobacco it just doesn't make any sense.

Wol

Yes, it would be a risk.

Who was it said "the definition of insanity is continually doing the same thing and expecting a different result?".

We've been doing the same thing for decades - same result.

ponyrama

Legalisation does not equate to freely available. Morphine is legal - providing you have a prescription for it. Their are plenty of codeine preparations available over the counter at your pharmacy without prescription, but they are of limited strength and you can only buy a small amount at a time.

The judgemental attitude that we have developed over substance dependency is quite frankly hypocritical. We are completely accepting of people who use anti depressants, tranquillizers, sleeping tablets, benzos etc on a daily basis to get through the day because they are 'prescribed' by the nice doctor. Some of these prescribed substances are far more damaging and addictive and cause more problems mentally and in withdrawal than any illegal substance.

Most illegal drugs have been made so because of their addictive properties, not because of therapeutic or harmful effect. The crime only comes because of the need for increasing social capital to obtain ongoing supplies of the drug which is often of poor quality, cut with mind altering adulterants. We are a society of double standards who have chosen to criminalise a sector of society because of their choice of substance. Show me the death rate from heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, PCP, cannabis, ecstasy and LSD combined and I will show you one 100's if not thousands of times larger from prescription drugs. No drug is safe in the wrong hands. But the psychotic, criminal and unhealthy behaviour of most addicts who use illegal drugs is driven by the emotional and physical turmoil that they endure on a daily basis to try and secure their next fix, bingeing when they are flush and withdrawing when they are not, and not by the drug itself.

We should learn from the lessons of past policy failures but that should not mean that we accept that the status quo is as good as its going to get.

Officer Dibble

They wouldnt be half as much fun if they were legal.

hevs

I have been reading this thread wondering when someone would actually mention the kids.....I have enough of a problem policing my 15 year old and alcohol, facing her on ice is a terrifying image....I cannot comprehand why anyone in there right mind would consider legalising addictive substances. Madness.....