Deancm_MKII

Let's rephrase that to illegal immigrant rights compared to citizens who died fighting for their country. Committing an illegal act is a crime so lets rephrase it again to criminal rights compared to citizens who died fighting for their country.

Deancm_MKII

Orrificer!

Deancm_MKII

Well actually, yes. But hey, because it's politically correct and fashionable to not accept responsibility for ones own actions, lets find someone else to blame...

ponyrama

Oh so we have moved off the topic of the Christmas Island tragedy and onto "illegal immigrants" which are two completely seperate issues as those people that died at Christmas Island were not "illegal immigrants" cos they didnt get here - they died. Had they landed safely they would have claimed asylum - so again they would not be "illegal".

I think you need a new thread!

elice_in_oz

It may well be for economic reasons, but what's wrong with that?

I lived in Bulgaria after the fall of communism. People finally had freedom, "democracy" - another debate for another time... - and no money, no prospects, no hopes and no future.

I used to field questions such as "why isn't the EU helping us?", "why is it so hard for us to go and make a better life for ourselves somewhere different?" from 16 and 17-year-olds who felt that the only way to live was the way they saw in all the American crap on TV that capitalism and freedom had brought them. My answer to that was "because nobody's gonna help you unless they get something out of it, that's what capitalism is really about."
And that's the truth, hard as it was for them to hear it. There was almost nothing in the shops, and what was there was unaffordable for most, the country's economy had collapsed, there was no money to pay for gas to heat schools up in the winter so school holidays had to be extended. I saw queues for bread and petrol start forming at 5 in the morning in the middle of winter outside my building. No wonder kids thought they would have a better life elsewhere, because what they saw in films and on TV kept throwing these ideas at them that life's easier elsewhere.

So yes, there will always be economic migrants in search of a better life, and some will try the legal way - which will fail in most cases because let's face it, we don't make it easy -, and others, because they can see no other way out, will try the illegal way and will most likely end up in a worse situation than the one they were in before they left.

For those on here who will read half of my post and start screaming that I am a commie-lover socialist bleeding heart, let me make it clear: I do not advocate the opening of borders to everyone. I do not think communism was/is a good thing. I just think that a little understanding for why people are driven to immigrate at all costs would not hurt. After all, most of us came here because we were searching for our better life. As Ponyrama put it in her earlier post, we are just lucky that we were given the opportunity to do it legally because most of us come from countries or backgrounds that gave us the tools and knowledge to do it. Others are not so lucky... Maybe sometimes we should try walking in other people's shoes before we condemn them...

stevenglish

Political correctness has got bugger all to do with it, they want the best for themselves and their families, but are forced to take extreme measures to do so, as their country of origin is 'at risk'.

A friend of mine submitted his visa application 6 months before me, mine was granted 5 months before his, the only difference was that he comes from Zimbabwe

Dreamy

I agree.

Who'd want to live in France?

ponyrama

There is. We are all born equal, naked, usually screaming, with no idea who our parents are, what country we are in or where we might end up.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to repeat my point!

ponyrama

I think I want to adopt you! (I would have usually just given you Karma but you've already had some today and I cant do it again)

elice_in_oz

Well there's that
And also the fact that France has a compulsory national ID card system which makes it a tad harder to hide from the authorities or fool them















Now let's hear it from all the civil liberties advocates
Maybe I'll start a new poll: For or against a compulsory national ID card Although I bet it's been done before. I'd better go and search first

elice_in_oz

Ooooh thanks

Well we could start a club maybe... "the bleedin'hearts of BE"

Only open to members who read posts to the end and understand them before answering!

And of course, they also have to be weirdo-tree-hugging-socialist-commie-hippies who want to adopt all asylum seekers and illegal immigrants!

stevenglish

According to the United Nations Convention and Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees (the Refugee Convention), a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their:

race
religion
nationality
membership of a particular social group
political opinion.

Soooo, the family in this photo do not fall into this definition, they're only starving to death so they'd be economic migrant scum.

Probably a bit melodramatic, but just trying to illustrate the point that the dividing line isn't as clear cut as many would think.

ponyrama

I've got tie dye stuff. And I'll stop shaving.

paulry

So what are you suggesting? That DIAC process applications from a country that's thoroughly incompetent and corrupted with the same speed and degree of scrutiny as those from a country possessing well run and uncorrupted institutions?

stevenglish

I'm suggesting no such thing and you know it, if someone from Zimbabwe is going to be waiting for over a year, then how bloody long is someone from Iran, Iraq or the like going to wait?? they know they won't get here legally, which leaves one door open to them