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Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by commonwealth
(Post 9864335)
can i get a working visa there?
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Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by cresta57
(Post 9864453)
I'm sure you could go Greek Daffyd.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by papilon
(Post 9864295)
Fark me is 500 years not long enough to come up with a plan???
Whenever Salmond opens his mouth, it appears its to put his foot in it with regards what he wishes would happen, compared to the facts. It really does appear that its entirely based on jingoism and his personal desire to be 'King Salmond' - the strategic plan just doesn't seem to be there. As close as I can gather, he's basing everything on the idea that oil revenues will save him (just as oil production falls off the cliff) and that he can wave debts away (which the Treasury I'm sure will agree to). The killer seems to be that he hasn't done his EU homework on his position with membership. In general you'd expect him to have had backroom meetings to line up succession membership of the EU on the UK's terms - but with the rumours coming out of there, it looks like he just 'assumed' again, and its not likely to come true. Something big, like independence, is a big shock to an economic system, with many costs and unexpected threats even if everything goes right. You don't want to even think about that scale of change unless you have every duck you can possibly be lined up - and the SNP haven't. Cameron is laughing on this one, he can't lose. |
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by GarryP
(Post 9865463)
It would appear not.
Whenever Salmond opens his mouth, it appears its to put his foot in it with regards what he wishes would happen, compared to the facts. It really does appear that its entirely based on jingoism and his personal desire to be 'King Salmond' - the strategic plan just doesn't seem to be there. As close as I can gather, he's basing everything on the idea that oil revenues will save him (just as oil production falls off the cliff) and that he can wave debts away (which the Treasury I'm sure will agree to). The killer seems to be that he hasn't done his EU homework on his position with membership. In general you'd expect him to have had backroom meetings to line up succession membership of the EU on the UK's terms - but with the rumours coming out of there, it looks like he just 'assumed' again, and its not likely to come true. Something big, like independence, is a big shock to an economic system, with many costs and unexpected threats even if everything goes right. You don't want to even think about that scale of change unless you have every duck you can possibly be lined up - and the SNP haven't. Cameron is laughing on this one, he can't lose. Further evidence of Salmond's fuzzy thinking here: Salmond lobbies for tax powers
Originally Posted by The Telegraph
"Meanwhile, Mr Salmond told the Hugo Young lecture last night that in a separate Scotland “the lender of last resort would be the Bank of Englandâ€. This suggests Scotland having to go cap in hand to London to bail out its institutions.
... However, Lord Myners ridiculed the proposal, asking: “Is it really credible that the interest rates of an independent Scotland would be set by a bank that has no responsibility for Scotland. “It is beyond belief that the Bank of England would be a lender of last resort any more than the Bank of China would be. The burden of bailing out would fall on English / UK taxpayers.†|
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 9865647)
What kind of loon actually believes that? If scotland ended up in a 'Greece' type position after flouncing off in the first place, the UK would say 'burn'. Frankly, post independence the only way the UK taxpayer would countenance bailing them out would be if they rejoined the UK, on worse terms. For the scots they are either sure it will work well, or don't do it at all. There is no way the BoE or the UK taxpayer is going to be a lender of last resort - bailouts would COST. As I said before, it's a divorce - it's not going to be nice, pretty or fair. |
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by GarryP
(Post 9865683)
The UK tax payer, bailing out the 'independent' scots, with the Daily Mail looking on quietly?
What kind of loon actually believes that? If scotland ended up in a 'Greece' type position after flouncing off in the first place, the UK would say 'burn'. Frankly, post independence the only way the UK taxpayer would countenance bailing them out would be if they rejoined the UK, on worse terms. For the scots they are either sure it will work well, or don't do it at all. There is no way the BoE or the UK taxpayer is going to be a lender of last resort - bailouts would COST. As I said before, it's a divorce - it's not going to be nice, pretty or fair. But it seems that Salmond wants a divorce, but to keep the credit cards. S |
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 9865714)
But it seems that Salmond wants a divorce, but to keep the credit cards.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by GarryP
(Post 9865683)
The UK tax payer, bailing out the 'independent' scots, with the Daily Mail looking on quietly?
What kind of loon actually believes that? If scotland ended up in a 'Greece' type position after flouncing off in the first place, the UK would say 'burn'. Frankly, post independence the only way the UK taxpayer would countenance bailing them out would be if they rejoined the UK, on worse terms. For the scots they are either sure it will work well, or don't do it at all. There is no way the BoE or the UK taxpayer is going to be a lender of last resort - bailouts would COST. As I said before, it's a divorce - it's not going to be nice, pretty or fair. |
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by Gibbo
(Post 9866090)
There would be no UK if Scotland was independent. The only reason there is a "UK" is because a Scots king accepted the English throne. It would revert to England and Wales + Northern Ireland
The combination of England + other provinces = UK Scotland has no special position in that, no matter what they think. |
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by Gibbo
(Post 9866090)
There would be no UK if Scotland was independent. The only reason there is a "UK" is because a Scots king accepted the English throne. It would revert to England and Wales + Northern Ireland
The UK would still remain as the name, as the name in full is the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. Scotland would no longer be a part of Great Britain if they decide for, and are granted, independence. |
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by roaringmouse
(Post 9866181)
When James I became King of both England and Scotland (known as James VI there), it was a personal union - as in, England and Scotland were still separate sovereign states but shared the same monarch. The United Kingdom didn't really come about until the Acts of Union in 1707 - when Scotland needed bailing out by England.
The UK would still remain as the name, as the name in full is the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. Scotland would no longer be a part of Great Britain if they decide for, and are granted, independence. |
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by Gibbo
(Post 9866226)
The name belies that. As soon as James VI ascended the English throne the countries became 1 Kingdom. The Act of Union has nothing to do with it. The only way that the UK would exist is if Scotland kept the monarch as head of state.
But that's exactly what they are planning to do... The SNP are fierce monarchists. S |
Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by Gibbo
(Post 9866226)
The name belies that. As soon as James VI ascended the English throne the countries became 1 Kingdom. The Act of Union has nothing to do with it. The only way that the UK would exist is if Scotland kept the monarch as head of state.
I was wrong with one thing - after the Acts of Union in 1707 it was called the Kingdom of Great Britain. It was then the Acts of Union in 1800 which united the kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland which created the United Kingdom (of Great Britain & Ireland). The name UK is a bit of a hangover from the past. Scotland can leave the GB (and therefore the UK) and there would still be a UK in existence - and the full name would remain the same (United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland). Doubtful that it would change to ...of England & Northern Ireland, or even England, Wales & Northern Ireland for political reasons. The rough outline of events were:
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Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by Gibbo
(Post 9866226)
The name belies that. As soon as James VI ascended the English throne the countries became 1 Kingdom. The Act of Union has nothing to do with it. The only way that the UK would exist is if Scotland kept the monarch as head of state.
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Re: Scottish Independence
Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus
(Post 9866273)
Well as Scotland is potentially going to sling its hook, then surely what England, Wales and Northern Ireland chose to call their nation, would have **** all to do with the Scots?
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