the troubadour

ALP and Libs pretty much joined at the hip in this. Odd though that Greens support high migration. My take, could be worse , in bigger numbers, but better getting the people to work already here.

abner

Covid happened. Now kinda back to normal.

What was the issue again...?

the troubadour

But such large numbers is not a return to normal. Turbo immigration is not in this country's interests. Normal migration figures certainly were.

Charismatic

We just have fewer workers per consumer of goods and services in our economy, like many other countries: https://data.oecd.org/chart/6NRN

For years we've been talking about organisational "efficiency" and improving "productivity", now employers (public or private sector) are being asked to actually do more with fewer workers they are proving absolutely shit at it. That's why you see so many vacancy postings.

Managers got addicted to cheap, plentiful labour. Organisations became bloated fueled by low cost workers and cheap money. Well now they need to shape up to stay in the game, and do it quickly.

the troubadour

We have(in Australia) a participation rate of just over 66% of the population in a job. I seem to recall some 100,000 people dropped out of paid, mainstream employment, over a period as short of a quarter.
We should be 'encouraging' those to return .
Improving productivity, is too often a key word to lowering standards , importing compliant workers, as well as increasing stress and lowering job security. But managers too often are poorly trained and a part of the problem, rather than a solution.

Beoz

But this is your problem to solve. This is from your own failings. Your problems shouldn't be the driver for the rest of the country.

And the greens are slowly working out that your attitude is a dying breed.

Jump on board before it leaves you all behind again.

the troubadour

The train has passed, I'm afraid. Australia has sold itself out and no best anyone with even the smallest degree of integrity lets that train depart from the station.

Beoz

Right

the troubadour

Thing being mass migration is detrimental to Australia and living standards. Funniest thing is when claimed to arrest the growth in aged numbers. AS if incoming migrants will remain 35.

Charismatic

Generally I think a country should seek to fulfill its skills and capability needs internally using market forces. If we have an insufficient number of widget engineers the wages of widget engineers will rise to attract people to the industry. There is never a shortage of workers in a capitalist economy, just sometimes incentives need to be rebalanced to redistribute labour within our workforce. That's part of a normal economy and why an engineer is paid more than a barista.

However where exceptional circumstances arise due to acts of god that put pressure on an industry, like medical staff during Covid-19 or Civil Engineers in NSW after flooding, I have no issue with issuing work visas to people with those skillsets.

We do need to be ruthless about eliminating jobs within our economy as there will be fewer workers to fill them. Since the invention of the printing press automation has been improving quality of life by raising productivity. Just throwing more foreign workers into industry will defer the need for investment and consequently not increase quality of life.

Beoz

Sadly no market is going to wait for "market forces" to raise an army of widget engineers within its borders.

Without importing, widget engineering businesses will wait a long time for widget engineers to be educated, and once they do, the rest of the world will be so far advanced it won't be worth widget engineering in this country,

The taxpayer then loses out as we cannot tax these not existent widget engineering companies nor employees. Plus we don't have enough diversity in our industry types, leaving us reliant on few industries.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you suggesting limiting available resources will increase wages? Potentially but the above suffers badly. And for many industries, increase wages here they will just go offshore.

Lifting wages is not the Albo answer to rising inflation.

the troubadour

Thing with turbo immigration of course, is that not all by a long stretch are in short supply. One should remember other family members, as an example may seek out lower skilled jobs in competition with locals. I was always surprised a decade ago, the number of taxi drivers,(I took taxi's a lot back then) from India, Pakistan, Bangla Desh in the main, who claimed to be engineers or in IT but could not obtain employment in their profession.
Hence just having some bit of paper evidently does not by a long chalk be suggestive of employment in that in Australia.
It is not just the capitalistic nature of the country, but the wealth and nature of the economy of the given country. Plenty of examples of people moving to a similar country for all intents and purposes, but where a higher income could be generated. Australia was once, less so now, but still in certain areas attractive to migrants from UK.
While more socialist inclined countries for example in Northern Europe did not have the same push/pull factors. In fact most those countries have a better lifestyle than found in Australia, especially when health care and retirement pensions are taken into account.
That's another reason why Australia is increasingly attractive to those coming from developing world countries, where most come from these days.

the troubadour

Obviously a limited resource will attract prime rewards. Nothing wrong with filling the gaps with overseas professionals until shortage rectified through home training. Likewise a return to normal migration intake should be welcomed. Flooding the country, to suit a few vested interests, should not be encouraged though.
An industry will only go off shoer if to their advantage. Little will stop that fact, outside of tax payer bribes, if industry so inclined.