Beoz

http://m.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/t...121-2d2xc.html

Could be contraversial.

Personally I think adults should be responsible for their own children and it shouldn't upset the peace of others.

Whilst I don't have children of my own, I do regulary look after my young niece and nephew. If they misbehave or disturb the peace of others when with me, I take them for a walk.

I see so many parents in public who do not.

rasen78

It's a difficult one. Personally, we would remove our children and ourselves if either of them where like this and when they were babies crying, if I could not console them, then I did leave. And we have left places when they have misbehaved as older children. But then, if they are like that, it will be for a reason and a cafe would probably not be the appropriate place for them. I do think in situations like this, the cafe should have stepped in, especially if it is a regular occurrence. I have seen plenty of notices since being here about inappropriate behaviour not being tolerated and to have respect for other patrons etc (or words to that effect).

I am not sure I would have said anything to the parents. Perhaps maybe to ask if everything was alright? Questioning someone else's parenting is such a tricky area and I would probably take offence if someone did that to me

Cheetah7

That could have turned out quite nasty. I think the restaurant should have stepped in to be honest but had it been me at that table, and it got too bad I would have left.

Short of taping the kids mouth up, not sure what the parents could have done if the child normally screams like that.

Difficult situation.

Geordie George

I think it depends on the context (where this screaming is happening), how old the child is, whether the adult responsible is alone or has back-up, if other children are involved. It's not simply a case of saying a child should be removed if s/he is crying.

Given that article cites the example in a cafe, I'd have cut the parents some slack - the child could have been hungry? The writer also claims that the child sounded in pain and yet their partner suggests taking the child for a walk?! If you suspected a child was hurt and wanted to intervene, surely you'd ask about the welfare of the child, not demand that they were removed because it was upsetting your breakfast? Unless, of course, you suspect that the child wasn't really in pain and you're just intolerant.

The only time I've ever had anyone intervene in a tantrum situation, I was actually glad of the contact. Miss Moo (just before she turned 4) threw the mother of all tantrums in a food court at a shopping centre. I was by myself (well, with the Gorilla, too, who was 16-months at the time). I can't remember what it was about, but she behaved hideously; threw herself on the floor, screamed, screeched - crying to the point of retching. And, from experience, I've learned that the only thing that works when she acts that way is waiting - trying to hug her to calm her down makes her worse, walking off doesn't work as she'll just scream louder, so it's just a case of sitting back and waiting for the storm to pass. Which makes me look like bad parent #1, who doesn't give a proverbial, and means I also get stared at and tutted at quite a bit.

On that occasion, one woman came over and asked if there was anything she could do to help - no judgement, just offering empathy. I could have kissed her. She said that she'd been there (she had a child about DD's age with her) and knew it can be hard. There was nothing she could do, but I was so grateful for someone just offering some support. No parent wants to be the one with a child creating a scene and upsetting other people. But, sometimes, it happens. And a little compassion and patience from other people really helps.

ETA: FWIW, when we go out (rarely!) we normally take mountains of books, pencils, paper, quiet toys etc with us, to try and avoid meltdowns.

ozzieeagle

I think the onus is definitely on the parents of the child.... Would they allow the child to cry at a wedding/Funeral/Inauguration.... or would they remove themselves and the child from the situation. Children are only at this stage for a short time in their lives. Surely it's not too much to let people enjoy their recreation without imposing on others during this socially awkward and relatively brief period in their lives.

If the Child is quiet, or even chattering quietly, I have no problem, neither with breastfeeding... but incredibly intrusive noise where you cant think straight is a selfish imposition..

This comes down to extremely "F... you all" selfish parents.

BTW We always removed ourselves when our kids started to become noisy.

Geordie George

Just out of interest, what would you have done in my example, Ozzie? Had I tried to removed Miss Moo, it would have meant tearing the Gorilla away from his lunch, which would have caused him to tantrum, too. Then I'd have been left trying to juggle two tantruming children, the stroller, my shopping etc by myself. I chose to let everyone else suffer for 5 minutes while Miss Moo burnt herself out, 'cause, in the long run, it was the best option for my children (they both got to finish their lunch and the tantrum was over relatively quickly, not prolonged by packing everything up and moving on). It's not necessarily the parent(s) that are selfish - I was putting up with some fabulous looks and comments in that scenario. My child was being selfish. But she was meant to be; she was 3.

ozzieeagle

Personally I reckon a food court is neutral territory... you expect to find screaming kids there at times... same with Mcdonalds or other fast food places.

So I almost certainly would have done exactly the same... or possibly did the walk off thing.... although the walk off is usually around the lolly aisle in the supermarket in my experience.

Food courts in particular are free areas for society to do as it wants... no doors all open etc etc.... So dont feel bad about that one at all please.

Geordie George

I don't. I deliberately picked an example to show that parents don't always have a choice. In fact, I think lots of parenting is about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. As ever, there's rarely a one-size fits all response/solution.

I have done more than my fair share of pacing up and down outside calming a child down while DH finishes off a meal by himself.

ozzieeagle

Other examples of where there's not much else you can do..... One of those Daytime Mothers Cafe Meetings......, Kids Birthday Parties in Rrestaurants/Cafes where they have an area booked....Not much you can do about it on a Plane either.

.

carolinephillips

People have become far less tolerant, and very quick to judge- I am sometimes guilty of it myself. Who knows what has caused the meltdown? It isn't bad parenting- toddlers can't cope with a situation and become very distressed all too easily, or the child may have a disability/syndrome and nothing the parents can do will change it. Tutting and remarks really don't help the parent.

I tend to think there is too much overstimulation these days in shopping centres- all the bright lights, hustle and bustle and smells- quite overwhelming for a small child who is yet to grasp that they can't have everything they want, hence the meltdowns. I find constant screaming/ noise physically painful so I will walk away. I am old enough to make that choice- the toddler often isn't, and once they are in full blown meltdown you have to let them get over it without stimulating them.

eddie007

agree with you Caroline... I have very little tolerance of children who are appearing to be behaving badly... But I hope I would never tut etc...

I suspect that we have, as a society disempowered parents, undermined their ability to parent. It's very hard for a parent to admit they are having problems with their kids... Let alone ask for help... Everyone is trying to portray their cookie cutter children... And they aren't... We are "sold" idealist images of what children should be... And ours in all honesty aren't... Not always... The pressures ar enormous...

There is a greater emphasis on going places and doing things, the world is much smaller and more accessible... We tend to have larger disposable incomes which are disposed upon the kids?...

I think from a very early age children expect to be entertained..... Where as we used to entertain ourselves....

There areso many factors .... It's a very complex issue

ozzieeagle

I wonder if the Parents of these kids, that wont remove themselves when their youngsters go into meltdown are the same Parents of the 3 to 4 year olds that go up to people and engage themselves with strangers in restaurants and generally run all over the place. seemingly unsupervised... mostly in a pub counter meal enviornment.

Mind you haven't seen that happen lately, either we're not going to those places any more or that cycle has stopped.

Beoz

Interesting opinions.

Take the aeroplane example. Long haul overnight flight, family with small children, one fires up and wakes up the 50 or so surrounding passengers. Do you sit there and let it ride itself out or do you run for the galley or the toilets until the little one settles down allowing the people to get on with their nap?

Bernieboy

A stun gun is yer answer

Beoz

Politics aside ..... Yes