Originally Posted by Burbage

Tolerance, understanding and forgiveness: three well known attributes of the Spanish Inquisition.

As for visiting a mosque, this is of course all about visting people who are equally brainwashed. If you school wants I'll come and give the kids a talk on reality. I await the invitation with relish.


That is because your capacity to question your own religion was brainwashed out of you as a child. You were told to accept things and not question them. This is a dangerous thing to teach children in a world containing so much disinformation. It also makes you easy victims of politicians and advertisers, and others who wish to propagate lies for their own self-interest.

If catholic schools taught critical thinking, which is urgently required for children's education in our modern world, then those children might question such things as:

If Matthew and Luke traced Jesus' lineage through Joseph, then did they believe in the virgin birth?

Is a god who condemns a man and his wife and all their descendents to suffering for ever and in perpetuity for eating an apple really a forgiving god? Are these not, in fact, the actions of a vindictive bastard?

God kills millions of people in the bible and the devil kills seven. Who should I take my chances with?

Etc etc. The bible is so full of holes that in order for people to accept it they MUST be brainwashed.





There is no problem teaching children nonsense as long as they are clearly told that it is nonsense. You don't believe in Santa any more, but there was a time that you did.



Luckily your children live in a society that doesn't kill people who turn their back on religion. Let's all be thankful for that.



Quite a few, I imagine, but they don't expect them to believe it for ever.



Believe me, I know more about christianity than you could shake a stick at.



It's perfectly possible to help your neighbours without having to believe that a woman talked to a snake and got her husband to eat an apple (or a fig, in fact, in the original text) as a result.



Your assumption that I don't know or understand christianity, or the catholic sect, is a little prejudiced. In fact you probably understand less of it than I do, since you have been told not to question what you have been told. Your veiled assumption that, because I don't go to church, I don't have a sense of community is, frankly, insulting. Umans are social animals by instinct, not because of some religious organisation.



"straits"



Maybe if a little less was taught then there wouldn't be quite so many of those neighbour-loving suicide bombers around. The only reason the catholic church isn't still burning heretics and witches is because of the reformation, the enlightenment and the industrial revolution. Without them we would still be at its mercy. Let us be grateful that human intellect won over ignorance. Obviously the church has had to change. But it would love to go back.



I don't feel threatened by religious schools any more than I feel threatened by paedophiles. But I think that children would be better off without them.



Well, apart from the first four. Basic rules that I'm sure society required for its function even before Moses wrote the ten commandments. You do know, by the way, that the ten comandments have been edited by the catholic church?



I have no problem with religion. It's nonsense, and can often be harmless nonsense, and if it makes people happy then why should they not follow it. Certainly there are worse things in the world. But children should not be brainwashed with it. If you want to brainwash them leave it until they are adult. The reason religion won't do this is because children are so easy to brainwash. Why do you think that Hitler came up with the Hitler youth? Children can be made to believe anything and they will often believe it for the rest of their lives.



That's what your parents should have said to the man in the white collar when you were five, then you might have had chance.

Originally Posted by The O'Neills

I didnt become Catholic until 12 years ago when I met my current husband. I am capable of making my own mind up as an adult, something I know my intelligent children will do. If they reject their faith, so be it. I won't get all high and mighty with them and try to barrage them with my beliefs. As Shakespeare said - "the woman doth protest too much me thinks!"

Who you actually trying to convince here?

Its sooo trendy to bash religion. After all, if you didn't you might actually have to start thinking about your actions eh?

One thing that my religion does for me is, it makes me question my actions all the time, I constantly question how selfish I am being.

Originally Posted by The O'Neills

Wonder how many of you celebrate christmas. Wonder how many of you also celebrate the birth of the Bab, the birth of Baha'u'llah or the birth of Guru Nanak Dev Ji?

Originally Posted by The O'Neills

I didnt become Catholic until 12 years ago when I met my current husband. I am capable of making my own mind up as an adult, something I know my intelligent children will do. If they reject their faith, so be it. I won't get all high and mighty with them and try to barrage them with my beliefs. As Shakespeare said - "the woman doth protest too much me thinks!"

Who you actually trying to convince here?

Its sooo trendy to bash religion. After all, if you didn't you might actually have to start thinking about your actions eh?

One thing that my religion does for me is, it makes me question my actions all the time, I constantly question how selfish I am being.

Originally Posted by Burbage

By the way, I don't continually try to examine my actions for selfishness. I try to avoid acting selfishly in the first place.

Originally Posted by Petals

I also believe that if you do not expose children to any form of religious education its far more likely they will seek out a cult or some other form to take its place if they are that way inclined.

Originally Posted by Burbage

The lady protests too much methinks... (is what Shakespeare said (or "doth protest" in one of the folios), but feel free to alter any old text which doesn't suit you, the Catholic Church has been doing it for 1700 years), and I am not a woman, which is why there's a little male symbol next to my avatar.

Aha. Yes well, there's no zealot like a converted zealot.

I have nothing against religion, as long as it never gets hold of society again, as it continues to do in most of the muslim world. But all religion is nonsense. This is not about bashing it, or about being trendy, it's about facing reality.

I am against brainwashing kids with nonsense that is dressed up as truth. There is nothing wrong with teaching morals.

If a person is so arrogant as to believe that they are too important to die, or is simply unable to come to terms with their own mortality then religion is probably for them. But let it be an adult choice. Let it be their choice once they are old enough to make it. But it should not be spoonfed to children as truth.

By the way, I don't continually try to examine my actions for selfishness. I try to avoid acting selfishly in the first place. Is your method to act selfishly and then ask for forgiveness? This makes acting selfishly okay does it? You seem to be of the opinion that someone who is not religious is not moral. The church tells you this. But it is wrong. In fact the majority of christians I know are far worse at applying the moral teachings of Jesus than the realists I know.

Originally Posted by Burbage

If a person is so arrogant as to believe that they are too important to die, or is simply unable to come to terms with their own mortality then religion is probably for them. But let it be an adult choice. Let it be their choice once they are old enough to make it. But it should not be spoonfed to children as truth.

By the way, I don't continually try to examine my actions for selfishness. I try to avoid acting selfishly in the first place. Is your method to act selfishly and then ask for forgiveness? This makes acting selfishly okay does it? You seem to be of the opinion that someone who is not religious is not moral. The church tells you this. But it is wrong. In fact the majority of christians I know are far worse at applying the moral teachings of Jesus than the realists I know.

Originally Posted by 22B

I believe it was a pagan festival that existed long before the birth of Jesus (who, IMO, was no different to Jim Jones, David Koresh, et al - perhaps they were multiple Comings?), but that is not why I celebrate it.