400,000 people have been murdered in South Africa since Mandela was released. Good job there wasn't a bloodbath.

Yeah. Things were supposed to get better - or so the rest of the world told us

A very sad day.

+1

I remember asking my dad who was he ? Rip Mandela and me ole dad xx as far as I am concerned he was practically a Scottish Mandela, some times I forget !

It's a personal thing!! I don't do my dad justice!

And you hold him personally responsible? And not the apartheid government that set up a system that entrenched inequality, ignorance, deprivation and brutality on a massive scale for decades and decades before Mandela was released?

Perhaps, then, you would like to compare Mandela to Mugabe - just to help you understand the difference.

He was the right man to breathe in reconcilliatory tones during the South African transition to full democracy, but he could have played a leading role for a bit longer than he did. He failed to speak out against Mugabe and sat quietly by while his successors went from bad to worse. But on balance I'd say he was a good, well-intentioned man. Hopefully he's left South Africa with a lasting legacy.

RIP Nelson

From the BBC, a quote from Mandela.

"We watch with sadness the continuing tragedy in Darfur. Nearer to home we have seen the outbreak of violence against fellow Africans in our own country and the tragic failure of leadership in our neighbouring Zimbabwe."

Yes he spoke out once but said and did nothing more after that. But admittedly he was a very old man even then.

You said he had "prevented a bloodbath". I'm just pointing out that the "bloodbath" continues year after year in SA and that attacks on white's have reached the point, that SA made it onto the genocide watch list.

I'll let you apportion blame for that. You're pretty good at it.

There were a number of posts that were becoming a little hostile, and whilst I don't personally like 'speaking' the way some of the discussion has gone, I accept that feelings run high and people have the right to express that. But the Barbie is not really the place for some of the language used or sentiments expressed so I've moved the more objectionable comments (trying to keep the gist of the conversation) to a new thread in TIO, where more colourful language is more acceptable. If your post is missing it is likely here - http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=817107

I can't see how any of these 'missing' posts are hostile IMO. Are we not allowed to debate anymore?

+1

BE is being over moderated yet again

Uh huh.

Well, let's see.

Those who hail him as an example of the best of humanity, a man with a goal of peace and reconciliation, a vast capacity for forgiveness, an example of courage, and express their respect for his life and sadness at his passing include The Dalai Lama, the Queen of England, Prince Charles, Nadine Gordimer, FW de Klerk, Archbishop Tutu, a host of world leaders, sportsmen, artists and masses of just ordinary people including white South Aricans, and a lot, lot more. And then there's you and a handful of other armchair critics on BE who are loud and brave from behind their keyboards.

Now, let me see which list I feel carries more weight.......

Well some of them were certainly rude and objectionable - but I agree, no need to make them go away. We aren't children.

Well most of us aren't anyway.