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-   -   HOSTAGES in CBD (https://britishexpats.com/forum/barbie-92/hostages-cbd-848861/)

Beoz Dec 15th 2014 10:07 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by renth (Post 11503799)
Agree 100%, when they listed all his wrongdoings I was like how the hell is this guy on bail?

Poor law on bail. Fixes to bail were on its way but too late in this instance. Current laws on bail were designed to lessen the burden on jails.

Pollyana Dec 15th 2014 10:10 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by Bernieboy (Post 11503943)
Most certainly,my response is not a knee jerk one but a measured one,people need to take their feelings and sympathy out of the situation and look at the 'facts' as we know them at this point,a terrible end indeed,but was it really necessary,i don't think so.

I honestly thought that it would go on 2-3 days maybe, then come to a peaceful conclusion. That number of casualties is a horribly high percentage to my mind (counting dead & injured).
I guess when it comes down to it though if the whole situation is alien and unexpected, one tends to follow one's instincts. I like to think that if I was in a situation like that I would remember conversations like this - but then I don't know if my emotions would just over-rule my common sense.


Originally Posted by renth (Post 11503949)
My thoughts exactly, I think a peaceful outcome was possible. I'm sure it won't be a popular opinion though.

No, you're probably right. The public love to think of someone being a "hero" like that, don't they.

The Bloke Dec 15th 2014 10:26 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by renth (Post 11503949)
My thoughts exactly, I think a peaceful outcome was possible. I'm sure it won't be a popular opinion though.

General concensus at work was that the police sniper should have taken the shot earlier in the day on the basis of tv pictures shown (taken across from the café at ground-level), saying they had plenty of opportunity. I tried to explain that what we saw on tv would not have been what a sniper would have seen, but got ignored. and making the shot would have possibly been difficult in the circumstances and that first negotiation is the first thing they try.

Beoz Dec 15th 2014 10:42 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by The Bloke (Post 11503970)
General concensus at work was that the police sniper should have taken the shot earlier in the day on the basis of tv pictures shown (taken across from the café at ground-level), saying they had plenty of opportunity. I tried to explain that what we saw on tv would not have been what a sniper would have seen, but got ignored. and making the shot would have possibly been difficult in the circumstances and that first negotiation is the first thing they try.

Apparently (so I heard from a snipping expert) the glass would have caused a refraction and lining the shot up accurately was near impossible.

Bernieboy Dec 15th 2014 10:43 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11503983)
Apparently (so I heard from a snipping expert) the glass would have caused a refraction and lining the shot up accurately was near impossible.

You spoke to a Rabbi ???


PS,if it was normal glass then the shot could have been taken with the right round,however someone told me it was an old bank building n the glass was 'toughened',that would have made it very difficult,however not sure how true that is.

scrubbedexpat098 Dec 15th 2014 10:48 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 
All this mention of islamist gun man when his faith was largely irrelevant. Even that pillar of balance the BBC. They seem to want to stir the mob up, disgraceful journalism pretty much across the board.

Bernieboy Dec 15th 2014 10:56 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11503990)
All this mention of islamist gun man when his faith was largely irrelevant. Even that pillar of balance the BBC. They seem to want to stir the mob up, disgraceful journalism pretty much across the board.

Jaysus a non-biased view from an english man:huh::blink::ohmy::goodpost:

scrubbedexpat098 Dec 15th 2014 11:11 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by Bernieboy (Post 11504001)
Jaysus a non-biased view from an english man:huh::blink::ohmy::goodpost:

Alright don't go on about it haha. To be honest being over here for afew months has opened my eyes a bit. I can feel a wave of tolerance sweeping me away, though it might be Carlsberg.

Bernieboy Dec 15th 2014 11:14 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 11504009)
Alright don't go on about it haha. To be honest being over here for afew months has opened my eyes a bit. I can feel a wave of tolerance sweeping me away, though it might be Carlsberg.

You'll be reading Dalai Lama books next;)

Dorothy Dec 16th 2014 1:22 am

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by Bernieboy (Post 11503984)
You spoke to a Rabbi ???

Mohel. A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moheldoes the snipping.

JoeBloggs80 Dec 16th 2014 10:19 am

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 
Waleed Aly nailing it as usual

Sydney gunman Man Haron Monis a real sheikh only to himself

Spoiler:

Sydney gunman Man Haron Monis a real sheikh only to himself

We can't stop this. Sorry, but we can't. As we ruminate on a thousand hows and what ifs – such as how the hell did someone like Man Haron Monis find himself out on bail – there's a brutal truth we can't escape: we're trying to impose order on chaos; to convince ourselves that everything can some day be under our control, when it just can't. Tony Abbott deserves lasting admiration for having the courage to admit as much.

From all appearances, this was as crude and as solitary as it gets. There's no high-tech wizardry on show. There's no elaborate, maniacal plan worthy of a Hollywood supervillain. There's not even a mastermind pulling strings to make this more coherent. There is only a man, a gun and a flag. The man and the gun we've seen before. Indeed, we've seen it horrifically often: in Belgium just hours after Martin Place; at Port Arthur. But the flag – that changes things. It lends this the apocalyptic timbre that drives us so mad. It's the thing in this episode that does the least damage – and the most.

It's also the thing that makes this global. There's every reason to suspect we're dealing with someone deranged here but many deranged gunmen have gone before him. Only rarely do they associate themselves with the symbolic power of a global militant movement. At no point in the history of our species have such human satellites, living beyond the margins of even the most marginal groups, had the power to do so: the power to become so much more than they are simply by attaching themselves to a symbol from another continent. And right now, there is no symbol more potent and available than that of Islamic terrorism.

So, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau and Martin Rouleau Couture in Canada. Zale Thompson in New York. Now Monis at Martin Place. We're seeing this more now: troubled (often criminal) histories, possible mental illness, religious conversion, violence. Monis apparently converted to Sunni Islam only recently, perhaps because you can't really claim to love IS when you're a Shiite and they're trying to exterminate you. Islam has such permeable borders, such an absence of hierarchy, that anyone can become anything in their own mind. Its symbols are available to anyone who wants to claim them and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. Australian Muslims had been disowning Monis for at least seven years. They'd even expressed their concerns to the authorities. But how can you stop the "fake sheikh" being real to himself?

There's no control order regime to account for this. There's no metadata inside an apparently deranged mind. We're busy fretting about the terrorists' tools of the future – which is all fair enough – while they wreak havoc with the tools of the past. Think about what we've seen lately, from Australia to North America: a knife, an axe, a couple of guns, even a car. Perhaps the most profound aspect of our age is that the power to inflict carnage is now shared with the small to the invisible to the otherwise insignificant. Man Haron Monis was so insignificant, hardly anyone knew him; so insignificant the system overlooked him. And now he's history.

But there's another history to be written here. One that is very much in control. It's a history written not just in the statements of leaders, but in the minutiae of our everyday interactions. It's the history we glimpsed as the siege unfolded when a single, humble Australian decided to declare #illridewithyou in solidarity with Muslims too scared to ride public transport. It's a history that commenced with the interfaith vigil held at the Lakemba and Auburn mosques. And it's a history to be determined by what we decide this tragedy symbolises: the sordid ideology of a man who deserves to be forgotten or the greatest virtues of those of us left behind.

knockoff nige Dec 17th 2014 8:02 am

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 
I wonder what the hostages thnk about this pro-gun senator and his view that these hostages would have protected themselves if they were allowed to be armed?

Australia a 'nation of victims', deadly Sydney siege unlikely in Texas, says pro-gun senator Leyonhjelm - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Hopefully we're not heading that way.

Swerv-o Dec 17th 2014 12:16 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by knockoff nige (Post 11506012)
I wonder what the hostages thnk about this pro-gun senator and his view that these hostages would have protected themselves if they were allowed to be armed?

Australia a 'nation of victims', deadly Sydney siege unlikely in Texas, says pro-gun senator Leyonhjelm - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Hopefully we're not heading that way.


This is a dreadful argument. In this limited circumstance, it's arguable that the hostages could have defended themselves - I would probably have had a go myself - but concealed handguns account for thousands of deaths in the US every year!


S

knockoff nige Dec 17th 2014 12:56 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by Swerv-o (Post 11506299)
This is a dreadful argument. In this limited circumstance, it's arguable that the hostages could have defended themselves - I would probably have had a go myself - but concealed handguns account for thousands of deaths in the US every year!


S

Yes that's what I think. It nearly throws the blame onto the hostages in a situation where they would be allowed to carry guns.

GarryP Dec 17th 2014 1:21 pm

Re: HOSTAGES in CBD
 

Originally Posted by Swerv-o (Post 11506299)
This is a dreadful argument. In this limited circumstance, it's arguable that the hostages could have defended themselves - I would probably have had a go myself - but concealed handguns account for thousands of deaths in the US every year!

They make them big and dumb in Texas.

He never stops to think that in his gun-nut utopia, the islamic loon would have been armed with multiple rapid-fire, semi-automatics - and thus could have killed MANY more people, much faster.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting


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