Originally Posted by keel (Post 8761197)

Spot on about the boots on the ground. But without Trident Great Britain loses all its international clout, that's why we still have a seat at the UN security council.

Trident is a political/diplomatic tool and should not be paid for by the military budget. I remember the cuts in defence budgets for Trident years ago.

The new aircraft carriers will take on a lot of the work of the RAF and cuts were always on the cards for this. There were a lot of arguments against the carriers a few years ago about the costs involved and I can see now this was right.

The military budget is now hostage to the carrier program and Trident.

There should only have been one carrier and the balance spent on the 3 more new Astute submarines instead. The carriers (without aircraft) are about 1.4 Billion Pounds and the Astutes about 700 million.

The Subs would, in my opinion, be much cheaper to arm than an aircraft carrier. Each of the 35 aircraft will be about 100 million so each carrier will actualy cost about 5 billion pounds.

This is another major Labour cockup. They spend money like it's water and leave it to others to tally the books.

Keel

Originally Posted by NELBHOY (Post 8761306)

EH!! What clout:confused:
Trident is an abomination & should be binned. It has no relevance on the so-called war against terror.
It would need a politician with an impressive pair of balls to do it. Alas no such thing exists in the UK:frown:

Originally Posted by keel (Post 8761197)

Spot on about the boots on the ground. But without Trident Great Britain loses all its international clout, that's why we still have a seat at the UN security council.

Trident is a political/diplomatic tool and should not be paid for by the military budget. I remember the cuts in defence budgets for Trident years ago.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus (Post 8761806)

Agreed, which is why I said "in purely military terms" that Trident wasn't required. Political clout is another matter. Perm members of the UN Security Council are the WWII allies. Being a nuclear power isn't related.

Originally Posted by ROMFT_WO2RN (Post 8761740)

Lots of armchair generals on here :rolleyes:

One carrier on it's own is pointless as one not permanently available (ask the French)

More Astute maybe, useful to keep skills going should we replace Trident(life extension), counteract SSK proliferation and SF ops.

Boots on ground? Which war are we planning to fight the current one or a future one? As every defence review has got it wrong so far what's left of the forces will just have to adapt the kit we're given to suit.

The SDSR, like every previous review, will allegedly be policy based but get vetoed by the treasury.

We're an island nation with approx 95% of trade arriving by sea and vulnerable to 5 strategic chokepoints. A strong navy is essential to maintain that backed up with the ability to intervene within the littoral. I could quote lots of other crap but ABCDiamond like the stats too much ;)

Any which way I'm glad I'm leaving soon.

Originally Posted by keel (Post 8763671)

One aircraft is better than none at least you'd have the carrier available every second year:thumbsup:. Good for bi-anual wars. Perhaps we could stag on with the Frogs:eek:.

More astute would be the way I'd go. If their not the battleship of the present then their at least battlecruizers.

BTW ROMFT do you know how much the fully loaded carrier costs and how many Astutes would we get for that price (after the initial costs of the program)?

Keel

Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 8760923)

Why are you trying (as always) to make this Australia v UK?

I certainly wasn't.

Originally Posted by northernbird (Post 8760927)

Don't bite mate ;) Wouldn't catch me getting wound up by a gloomer!!!

Originally Posted by kevin747 (Post 8764340)

I wassn't . I just object to Aussies attempts to be the chattering classes.

Originally Posted by kevin747 (Post 8764348)

Nothern slums or perth? Ha Ha

Originally Posted by kevin747 (Post 8764340)

I wassn't . I just object to Aussies attempts to be the chattering classes.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus (Post 8765000)

You have seriously lost it pal. There are threads where these sort of UK/Oz 'wars' are expected. This isn't one of them. You need to pull yourself together, grow up, and move on, before you just become a pathetic figure of fun.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus (Post 8765000)

This isn't one of them. You need to pull yourself together, grow up, and move on, before you just become a pathetic figure of fun.

Originally Posted by Zambia (Post 8765477)

Bit late for that IMO