After reading an interesting thread over on the main forum I thought I'd post a poll to see what everyone's thoughts were ....

I worked in recruitment for a while and found a lot of Uni leavers had higher expectations for their immediate future career than reality could offer. This often presented some interesting challenges! Telling someone that's spent a large amount of money on improving their education that they'll earn the same amount initially as a school leaver is hard.

Does doing a trade qualification make someone more employable?

Do you think one is better than the other (degree v vocational)?

My OH has a degree which enabled us to get sponsorship, but without his hands on experience he wouldn't have got the job to start with so I suspect I value both equally.

Some degrees aren't for the real world, but then so are some of the vocational courses too

my degree is useless to me. Georgraphy and Underwater Geology.
Doesnt assist me in my profession (senior business analyst).

The core problem I had was that I was mentally too inexperienced to know what I wanted to be when I grew up, as a kid. Therefore made some weird choices for degree courses.

But some places insist you a degree. Doesnt matter what its in, apparently it shows an aptitude to learn, which I find to be utter bollocks. The only thing I learned in uni was inventive excuses for late work submissions, how to roll a joint, creative bong manufacture 101 (involving a wheely bin and a vacuum tube), and how to pick up girls by persistance. I'm still a good worker though, but no thanks to uni.
uni was awesome for everything other than work, but I barely remember the classes, and it wasnt that long ago!

I think would place experience over degree (where it is assumed that hands on experience exposes the person to the same type of scenarios) Obvioulsy a doctor or lawyer (etc) falls into a different category entirely.

I have two MBA students working with me, and while their theory is sound their practical application is just a load of pompous verbosity, where what you need sometimes is to roll your sleeves up and get dirty.

Also, the persons traits weigh heavily into this. I'd prefer someone who can holistically view an issue (whether uni or not) compared to someone who is compartmentalised.

Depends on the degree, depends on the job.

Many degrees are pretty much worthless in employment terms. That's not to say that gaining knowledge is worthless - jobs aren't everything, or even the main thing - but a degree in the "History of Art" sets you up for nothing.

At the same time, there are jobs where a good grounding in subjects and 'how to think' are important, and jobs where it's not. For instance, in the way which it tends to be done, recruitment tends to require no knowledge at all. No point getting a degree to be a rubber stamp merchant.

Personally I'd vocational course are overrated, and overcharged. Most of the jobs you can do with them could be done by reading a book. It's certification - a fault line in society that says paying money for a piece of paper somehow is a good idea.

In nursing it depends...

No it doesnt

I would rather have a dipHE nurse with experience on the team than some new grads with a degree... But thats because the nursing degree in some countries is so "hands off" the grads have to learn to apply all their extensive knowledge to the workplace... And the pt...

There's still an element in nursing where because of years of experience you just KNOW summits wrong, so you keep a closer eye on some one... Even tho all the figures stack up to a pt who isnt in trouble..... You just KNOW that its coming... Which is probably why nursing is an art/ craft as well as a science... How many times have nurses been in handover and its said..." Cant put me finger on it but keep a closer eye on pt x....." and during the shift that pt who looked hunky dory crashes????

Nursing is a hands on job... If you cant deal with vomit, bood and shit then it doesnt matter what level you have studied to, you're no good in the team.... If you dont care to make sure your pt is comfortable and clean, well nourished and hydrated then dont become a nurse on my team.... Dont care what your qualifications are... If you dont enjoy doing the basics of hands on nursing then fluck off to an ivory tower somewhere.... In fact if your Masters means very little on a night shift when you have 8+ pts each all wanitng a bed pan at the same time...

Having said that... You cant beat expert nursing care combined wi the qualifications to back it up.... But you aint an expert, no matter what the piece of paper says til you've got Some experience

I could take offence at that but as I was a New Business Team Leader prior to working in recruitment I can completely agree.

It becomes a job to know the requirements of your client and their business, which is the case with many, many jobs.

I found it particularly interesting what In Exile said .... so many poor kids leave school with no clue, chose something that looks vaguely interesting only ever to never use the course content again!

One of my regrets is listening to my dad - he said for those subjects like Geography, History etc "that teachers who teach them do so because they're not doing something more interesting!" Now though, if I'd done such a degree it could have led to so much more, teaching etc for example! Loved geography with a passion but his dislike of teachers put me off! Now, it's the one thing I'd retrain for!

Maybe that's another poll - what would you retrain for?!

Unless you intend to get involved in the arts, museums, research, art journalism, antiquities etc. For the main part it is useless if you don't want to enter those professions but no better or worse than getting a degree in Sociology and ending up in IT.

Having relevant qualifications means that you should be able to do a job well, whereas having experience shows that you have been able to do the job well. If you have both qualifications and experience, then you will definitely be able to do the job well. If only it were that simple.

I have a HND in Software Engineering, I could have worked to convert it to a degree but didn't see the point.

It hasn't seemed to have been a limiting factor in my various jobs.

No that anyone has actually asked for evidence of my HND, for that matter.

Does some of the prejudice us snooty degree professionals hold towards trades people stem from the fact we get ripped off and cheated so often? Mechanics lie, plumbers bodge things and then run for the hills, anything piece rate paid takes weeks.....Hence it can be easy to lump all vocational/trades etc together as the 'enemy' .

I have two BAs and an MBA - the MBA is the only one directly relevant to the job I used to do in London and I wouldn't have got it without that.

Some Aussie voc Ed courses can last years to teach something that can be fast tracked in a year elsewhere.

Lawyers? Accountants? Financial advisors?

Same ting but wearing a tie.

I'm unejaculated...........but very hands on

My nickname at my past job was 'guru' because whatever they sasked me I was able to direct them to the right place even if I didn't know the answer myself.

In my time at school we wrote with hammers and chisels, hell, the books were heavy, and there was no real impetus to further ones education.

I guess if I had been born some eons later then I would have a back pocket full of degrees or such like as I always was a very good swotter and top of the class. Lot's of flies in the countryside you see.

However it seems to me that a lot of subjects and topic matter are nothing more than hogwash and totally useless to any living being.

I realise education is not just about what one learns but about developing the mind and thought processes. What I can't really fathom is why someone would not actually want to learn something useful whilst doing that.

Over many years new employees ended up at my desk seeking information. Most of them had absolutely no clue about business or even practical sense come to that.

Who is the fool though?

Me with my years of "uneducated" hands on knowledge and experience, or the degree laden student who invariably earns far more than they are worth because of the bits of paper they have and usually a good ability to present.....other peoples work.

If I ran my own business I would employ experience every time.

Graduates struggle to get work once out of Uni as they are expected to have experience as well as formal qualifications. Graduate schemes are tough to get on. The polarisation between trade and academic in the UK has social class connotations too. I think you need to separate the degree
people - vocational degrees, like law or economics are surely more worthy than the media studies
ex polytechnic stuff.

A very Anglo-Saxon (UK, Australia, US etc) attitude.

I feel this depends on how you value qualifications. If it's just about opening employment opportunities then the market decides which is valuable and which is not and who is more employable or less so. If you see qualifications as having value in and of themselves then the market and employability is not so important.

Partially agree.
I was not intending to bag all educational or degree status but let's make it useful.

I mean, take the University Challenge type "Ruby is reading 15th century Burkina Fasso history". Total waste of time.

But even then I think most of the education pathways miss a vey important factor and that is the real world.

What is the point of learning pure economics for example and then going out into the real world to discover it doesn't actually operate like that. It can't because we have to tailor our actions in line with the resources we have available. That is the same throughout all the working world.