View Poll Results: Which statement do you agree with
Global warming is caused by humans
27
19.01%
Global warming is a natural process, contribution of human activity is substantial
44
30.99%
Global warming is a natural process, contribution of human activity is negligible
65
45.77%
Global warming seems unlikely
6
4.23%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll
Global warming
#811
Re: Global warming
BTW, I've done plenty of statistics.
#812
Re: Global warming
The deniers don't hesitate to bang on about a month or season being colder than average. I'm not claiming the current hot summer we're experiencing in Australia is "proof" of climate change, but it is interesting that the last three consecutive months have been well above average with November smashing the previous record by a wide margin in much of south-eastern Australia. In fact, I think every summer in the last 10 years has actually been above the long-term average in Canberra. Maybe a statistical blip or aberration? Maybe, but it's unlikely.
BTW, I've done plenty of statistics.
BTW, I've done plenty of statistics.
If you've done any statistics at all you'll know that your post was utterly meaningless.
Anyway, there is no one who denies that climate change is occurring. It occurs all the time. Has done so for 6 billion years on the planet Earth. No one denies that currently we are in a warming trend. A lot of people, particularly the ones who understand the science of modelling complex systems, have severe doubts about the ability of a bunch of UN bureaucrats to accurately find their arse with both hands, never mind predict the climate in fifty years time.
Last edited by Burbage; Feb 9th 2010 at 6:59 am.
#813
Re: Global warming
The deniers don't hesitate to bang on about a month or season being colder than average. I'm not claiming the current hot summer we're experiencing in Australia is "proof" of climate change, but it is interesting that the last three consecutive months have been well above average with November smashing the previous record by a wide margin in much of south-eastern Australia. In fact, I think every summer in the last 10 years has actually been above the long-term average in Canberra. Maybe a statistical blip or aberration? Maybe, but it's unlikely.
BTW, I've done plenty of statistics.
BTW, I've done plenty of statistics.
In fact, by saying “Global Warming” or “Climate Change” we are implying that the temperature is static, which of course it isn’t.
It is a very confusing subject.
#814
Re: Global warming
The deniers don't hesitate to bang on about a month or season being colder than average. I'm not claiming the current hot summer we're experiencing in Australia is "proof" of climate change, but it is interesting that the last three consecutive months have been well above average with November smashing the previous record by a wide margin in much of south-eastern Australia. In fact, I think every summer in the last 10 years has actually been above the long-term average in Canberra. Maybe a statistical blip or aberration? Maybe, but it's unlikely.
BTW, I've done plenty of statistics.
BTW, I've done plenty of statistics.
It would be easier for the IPCC and climate change proponents if that's what skeptics were arguing. Unfortunately (for them) intelligent critical thinking about a subject tends to be a whole lot harder to shut up than just using a logical fallacy to shove "deniers" in a corner like that.
#815
Re: Global warming
Climate change skeptics are not denying that climate change is happening and I would doubt that you could find one half sensible person who would point to a month or year being colder than the previous year as evidence of some IPCC conspiracy.
It would be easier for the IPCC and climate change proponents if that's what skeptics were arguing. Unfortunately (for them) intelligent critical thinking about a subject tends to be a whole lot harder to shut up than just using a logical fallacy to shove "deniers" in a corner like that.
It would be easier for the IPCC and climate change proponents if that's what skeptics were arguing. Unfortunately (for them) intelligent critical thinking about a subject tends to be a whole lot harder to shut up than just using a logical fallacy to shove "deniers" in a corner like that.
NO ONE DENIES THAT CLIMATE CHANGE OCCURS. Therefore THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a CLIMATE CHANGE SKEPTIC.
The term skeptic or denier can be equally applied to both sides of the argument anyway, as long as it is defined. Calling someone a "denier" is meaningless unless you state accurately what it is they deny. Sorry to sound like a stuck record, but obviously people like Budawang are falling for political spin, not scientific debate. If we don't deal in scientific debate the political leaders in this country are going to pull off the greatest con of their own taxpayers in the history of the "democratic" world.
#816
Banned
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Stratford
Posts: 401
Re: Global warming
Australia is the highest emitter of greenhouse gases per capita in the developed world.
Oz will suffer more than most as the hole above it grows bigger, even if man has little to do with global warming would it not be sencible to try and cut back on emmisins just in case.
Australians were found to be the world's worst polluters per capita, producing five times as much CO2 from generating power as China.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7092989.stm
http://www.1degree.com.au/node/787
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects...g_on_Australia
Oz will suffer more than most as the hole above it grows bigger, even if man has little to do with global warming would it not be sencible to try and cut back on emmisins just in case.
Australians were found to be the world's worst polluters per capita, producing five times as much CO2 from generating power as China.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7092989.stm
http://www.1degree.com.au/node/787
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects...g_on_Australia
#818
Re: Global warming
Australia is the highest emitter of greenhouse gases per capita in the developed world.
Oz will suffer more than most as the hole above it grows bigger, even if man has little to do with global warming would it not be sencible to try and cut back on emmisins just in case.
Australians were found to be the world's worst polluters per capita, producing five times as much CO2 from generating power as China.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7092989.stm
http://www.1degree.com.au/node/787
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects...g_on_Australia
Oz will suffer more than most as the hole above it grows bigger, even if man has little to do with global warming would it not be sencible to try and cut back on emmisins just in case.
Australians were found to be the world's worst polluters per capita, producing five times as much CO2 from generating power as China.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7092989.stm
http://www.1degree.com.au/node/787
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects...g_on_Australia
#819
Re: Global warming
Why do those who are sceptical about the models always seem to err to the nothing is happening end of the scale? Why don't they say things like:
- The models are shonky and are far too conservative in their estimates, the seas will boil by 2024!
- The IPCC is politically motivated and is protected Big Oil by pretending that the earth will only warm by 2 - 4 degrees
- If we don't kill all the cows now, we will all choke to death within a year (with a special nod to the Camel Scientists)
#821
Re: Global warming
Who are these deniers you're talking about? The ones who deny that climate change is natural or the ones that deny that it is man made?
If you've done any statistics at all you'll know that your post was utterly meaningless.
Anyway, there is no one who denies that climate change is occurring. It occurs all the time. Has done so for 6 billion years on the planet Earth. No one denies that currently we are in a warming trend. A lot of people, particularly the ones who understand the science of modelling complex systems, have severe doubts about the ability of a bunch of UN bureaucrats to accurately find their arse with both hands, never mind predict the climate in fifty years time.
If you've done any statistics at all you'll know that your post was utterly meaningless.
Anyway, there is no one who denies that climate change is occurring. It occurs all the time. Has done so for 6 billion years on the planet Earth. No one denies that currently we are in a warming trend. A lot of people, particularly the ones who understand the science of modelling complex systems, have severe doubts about the ability of a bunch of UN bureaucrats to accurately find their arse with both hands, never mind predict the climate in fifty years time.
Yes, of course the earth's climate is not static and it never has been. However, there is clear evidence that the rate of change has increased substantially in recent decades.
I wouldn't say the IPCC are "a bunch of UN bureaucrats" (if that's what you're suggesting). Believe it or not, the IPCC is mostly made up of scientists.
Is climate change science "settled"? Heck no, there's a huge amount we don't know. However, it's clear there is a strong probability that humans are the main cause of recent global temperature increase. To deny otherwise, is to deny the vast majority of scientific opinion. (please note, I did not say "there is absolute certainty that humans are the only cause of global temperature increase").
#822
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,316
Re: Global warming
Australia is the highest emitter of greenhouse gases per capita in the developed world.
Oz will suffer more than most as the hole above it grows bigger, even if man has little to do with global warming would it not be sencible to try and cut back on emmisins just in case.
Australians were found to be the world's worst polluters per capita, producing five times as much CO2 from generating power as China.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7092989.stm
http://www.1degree.com.au/node/787
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects...g_on_Australia
Oz will suffer more than most as the hole above it grows bigger, even if man has little to do with global warming would it not be sencible to try and cut back on emmisins just in case.
Australians were found to be the world's worst polluters per capita, producing five times as much CO2 from generating power as China.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7092989.stm
http://www.1degree.com.au/node/787
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects...g_on_Australia
Per sq km Aus' carbon output is one of the lowest in the world
And the hole's been closed a while now. I think you might be mixing things up a little
#823
Re: Global warming
Oh dear, I've really got you goat up. I will have to clarify. When I used the term "denier" I really meant "people who deny that human-induced carbon dioxide emissions are warming the earth's climate". Is that clear enough for you?
Yes, of course the earth's climate is not static and it never has been. However, there is clear evidence that the rate of change has increased substantially in recent decades.
I wouldn't say the IPCC are "a bunch of UN bureaucrats" (if that's what you're suggesting). Believe it or not, the IPCC is mostly made up of scientists.
Is climate change science "settled"? Heck no, there's a huge amount we don't know. However, it's clear there is a strong probability that humans are the main cause of recent global temperature increase. To deny otherwise, is to deny the vast majority of scientific opinion. (please note, I did not say "there is absolute certainty that humans are the only cause of global temperature increase").
Yes, of course the earth's climate is not static and it never has been. However, there is clear evidence that the rate of change has increased substantially in recent decades.
I wouldn't say the IPCC are "a bunch of UN bureaucrats" (if that's what you're suggesting). Believe it or not, the IPCC is mostly made up of scientists.
Is climate change science "settled"? Heck no, there's a huge amount we don't know. However, it's clear there is a strong probability that humans are the main cause of recent global temperature increase. To deny otherwise, is to deny the vast majority of scientific opinion. (please note, I did not say "there is absolute certainty that humans are the only cause of global temperature increase").
There is no evidence that the earth has warmed up in a way that is significantly different from natural expectations in the last century. None whatsoever. Therefore there is no strong probability about anything unnatural causing it since nothing has been observed that is particularly unusual.
In fact what is unusual, if you look at geological history, is how stable the climate has been for the last 200 years or so.
What the IPCC act on is a mathematical model. THey do not use evidence at all.
#824
Re: Global warming
You can easily see that the meaningless terminology from the IPCC spin doctors automatically gives a negative view of people who don't agree with them. Budawang is a case in point, and is quite happy to negatively view people who are "deniers" or "skeptics" without any idea of what they deny or what they are skeptical about.
NO ONE DENIES THAT CLIMATE CHANGE OCCURS. Therefore THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a CLIMATE CHANGE SKEPTIC.
The term skeptic or denier can be equally applied to both sides of the argument anyway, as long as it is defined. Calling someone a "denier" is meaningless unless you state accurately what it is they deny. Sorry to sound like a stuck record, but obviously people like Budawang are falling for political spin, not scientific debate. If we don't deal in scientific debate the political leaders in this country are going to pull off the greatest con of their own taxpayers in the history of the "democratic" world.
NO ONE DENIES THAT CLIMATE CHANGE OCCURS. Therefore THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a CLIMATE CHANGE SKEPTIC.
The term skeptic or denier can be equally applied to both sides of the argument anyway, as long as it is defined. Calling someone a "denier" is meaningless unless you state accurately what it is they deny. Sorry to sound like a stuck record, but obviously people like Budawang are falling for political spin, not scientific debate. If we don't deal in scientific debate the political leaders in this country are going to pull off the greatest con of their own taxpayers in the history of the "democratic" world.
Sadly I feel you are right about the greatest con this country will ever see.
#825
Re: Global warming
Perhaps the single main reason why many Australians are geniunely concerned about AGW has nothing to do with the IPCC. The average punter has little or no understanding of whether IPCC scientists and methods are credible or not. Many Australians (particularly older ones) have direct, anecdotal, evidence that the climate in this part of the world HAS changed significantly. I remember summers in the 70s when we occasionally put on our heating which is in stark contrast to the last couple of summers. There is nothing "scientific" about such observations but it helps explain why there is genuine concern in Australia (and many other places in the world) about AGW.