Thanks LouiseR
Have fun to i cannot wait to go

Sydney harbour is one of the most beautiful City Vistas I've ever seen. However the rest of Sydney isnt up to scratch. St Kilda is just one of many 'burbs to go out in. No one has ever claimed it is beautiful, just a place where things happen. There are far more of these happening "burbs in Melbourne than Sydney.

I only know of 4 of these vibrant Burbs in Sydney, Melbourne has at least 10.... I'd put them in this Order.... Carlton, Fitzroy, Brunswick, Richmond, St Kilda, Prahran, Northcote, Hawthorn, Toorak, North Melbourne, South Melbourne, South Yarra, Collingwood..... Preston is on it's way. I'm talking Venues/Things to do/Architecture (Street scape for urban lovers)

When people go on about Melbourne, they are talking about the whole of the inner area, not just the CBD. Sydney is way behind this now. Last Two times I visited Sydney I was amazed how quiet the CBD was at Night time.

Still I would live in Sydney as my 2nd choice in Aus quite happily.

I'm really stuck for a 3rd choice I will admit.... I think it would be Hobart V Adelaide. I just cant hack humidty.... Sydney is as humid as I can handle.

One thing about St Kilda, is its probably the least attractive of the Burbs I've mentioned above, you have to go to the Side Streets to see the decent buildings. It's 5th on my list Hutch....

I'd love to see a list of happening burbs in Sydney, so I can try them out next time I visit. I only know of Manly, Paddington, Parramatta and Darlinghurst. There's stuff all at Bondi Beach... which in my view is the most overrated place in Aus. Maybe Bondi Junction has more going for it, rather than just another Ho Hum highly overrated beach, amongst the 1,000's we have around Aus.









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Dang! We've been rumbled.

I was going to say that. Actually, apart from the laneways, Melbourne CBD is just that - a CBD organised well on a grid system. The casual visitor may not realise that the happening stuff is actually outside that CBD grid system.

I don't mean every single city... there's a bit of artistic license there Sir..What I've noticed is that the relative age of European cities make them look greyer too - sort of darker. The whole sorry lot, Melbourne included is less attractive under grey skies.

I often look at the established suburbs of the inner East in Melbourne and think of North London, SW London until I see SW London and North London on the box and then again - I think - actually Melbourne is not that grey.

Have a look at a great recent movie called Harry Brown if you want to see depressing inner city vistas.

Its compulsory for Brit kitchen sink dramas to have a drab grey backdrop.

And there was me thinking it was all turquoise glass backdrops now lol. Zulu - I'm not a big fan of Michael Caine but I will watch out for it!

Well if you will insist on going to eastern Poland for your holidays. But try Berlin, Vienna, Paris, Brussels, Bruges, Amsterdam, Nice. In no way can they be described as 'grey'. I think 'stunning' is the more appropriate word.

And while I'm here, I'll share my theory.... which Mrs JTL thinks is bollox. New buildings in australian CBDs are all built of reflective glass so that the sunlight bounces down to street level. Thats how they get planning permission for tall buildings. They make them reflective, therefore the streets aren't so dark, sunlight bounces around.

Or else, why are all new tall builings reflective these days? They're not attractive, but they are reflective.

JTL

It's subjective. When I say grey I don't mean they are all painted some sort of dark colour. I just mean the relative age of the buildings and a general feel. I find streetscapes in London even look out of line - out of plumb - the kerb stones look worn. Again down to age. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Now Eastern Europe is grey - by a more stricter (and truer) application of the word.

I like your theory.

Never been to Melbourne, want to but want to go to loads of places. Hutch you made me laugh out loud. No idea if your views would match mine or not but you made me laugh

Beware the taxi drivers in Melbourne....

And just hope to hell you don't need to go Little Bourkes Street.

JTL

Most of the charm of Melbourne's CBD is hidden beneath the skyscrapers.

There is basically an old city hiding behind the new one, to use an analogy, it is like a garden that has been overgrown by the forest over the years and you have to walk in amongst the forest to see it, you won't see it from afar.

I am referring to the fantastic 19th century (mostly Victorian period) architecture that is to be found within the CBD of Melbourne as well as in most of the inner suburbs. You have to walk in amongst all the streets and lane ways to really see it. The 'street scapes' of Melbourne are also far superior than Sydney's IMO, I have been to both cities and Melbourne just has that 'old world' sophisticated and civilised feel about it.

There are many types of beauty. Sydney has the 'in your face' natural beauty and much more of the glitzy spectacle type of beauty but tends to be brash and soulless, kind of selling its soul for the tourist dollar and the socialites. Many people get the feeling in Sydney that you can't really relate to the place or feel a part of it, even if you were to live there.

The suburbs of Sydney don't impress me. Pardon me for generalising a bit, but they tend to be either glitzy playgrounds of the ultra wealthy, or just faceless suburbia. Melbourne has a lot of faceless suburbia as well but not to the same extent.

Melbourne oozes character, culture and a community feel. A place to live rather than a place for tourists to be impressed and spend their money or the elite of society to gain further status. Melbourne is the event capital and there always seems to be something going on. Melbourne has it all over Sydney when it comes to sporting events.

Melbourne has the four seasons, more interesting weather and far more tolerable to be honest than Sydney's muggy and oppressive weather where it often pisses down for days, especially in summer and Autumn. Sydney is as bad as anywhere in summer when it comes to humidity. You won't get anywhere near the quality of Autumn colour in Sydney that Melbourne gets or the classic northern European cool climate gardens because Sydney actually has a borderline subtropical climate with poorly defined seasons.

Melbourne certainly comes out on top in terms of the parkland and leafy streets reminiscent of northern Europe.

Of course, not everyone likes this and many would prefer the Sydney environment to the Melbourne one and the Sydney CBD suburbs to the Melbourne version. One thing about Sydney is that it has very interesting geography with the sandstone cliffs, harbour, and surrounded by national parks with classic Australian wilderness, quite rough and secluded close to the city. But then again Melbourne has it's fantastic bushland areas as well, mostly on the outskirts and it has the Dandenong ranges with the mountain ash forest and rainforests there.

Each to their own I guess but obviously I much prefer Melbourne.

Where is 'Boukeys street' I'm in Bourjkeys street where is little 'Boorkhkeys street', It's boaourkeys street, what is the the problem.

After a 24 hour flight..... Couldn't be arsed telling him.

JTL