Yes very interesting thread.

Pythagoras said the earth was spherical in the 6th century 'BC'. By the third century 'BC', its rough circumference had even been calculated.

I cannot explain the existence of the tooth fairy. Does that mean that there is not the remotest possiblity that he/she/it exists?

Might not be many truly religious migrants, I guess the truly religious don't like change and would not think about moving across the world .

the tooth fairy does exist and is alive and well and living in Bedfordshire

Possibly, I don't really blame them, as the fastest way to kill this debate is not to argue against it. I have had many a facinating few hours at a time debate with what I call religious nutters. Most were very well educated or quite high in their professions, made for very interesting conversations but having said that, I did quickly conclude you can never convert one. There is no sane or rational argument you can give one of them that will make any difference. You could have catagory proof, a photo or something that would prove the non existance of God, and they would still believe.

I once went with a cristian mate to a bible bash evangelical type thing on a sunday morning, thinking if I understood beter what compelled one of the brightest guys I know to suddenly become a born again chirstian fanatic, I might stand more of a chance to convert him back to the light side.

It was an eye opener that's for sure, there was a music group on stage with the minister, they had poweramps in the gigawatt range like you get at pop concerts. After a while it got going and the music and shouting started, the music was so powerfull it made your body shake with the deep bass and vibrations. My mate turned to me and said, "Can you feel it?" Feel what I asked, "God, He's inside me now!" He honestly thought the vibrations and the feel good factor of the music was the presence of God!

At the end the straw hat went round the isle's and everyone put a hidious amount of money into it, My mate wrote a cheque for a couple of hundred quid, and asked me do I think it was enough! The minister drove off on a top of the range Merc.

I realised then there was nothing I could do to get my mate back. Then about 3 years later he was cured! He was flying a helicopter over a north sea oil rig and looked up at the rotors, and realised the only thing holding him in the air was a massive U bolt that holds the rotors on, NOT GOD, and that just snapped him out of it...

I agree, I even got paid money by one when I was a kid, so I had the physical proof in the form of a 10 pence piece, until I spent it on sweets to make my other teeth fall out. Go figure.

And a bolt of lightening came forking down from heaven and struck the helicopter?

LOL. Luckily not, otherwise his religious freedom would have been very short lived.

I've just re read Noah, and he went to all the trouble of saving the animals only to sacrifice a bunch of them and "God saw the sacrifice and was pleased". The book is just complete drivel, I've read better stories in the doctors waiting room in a readers digest, Just!

You moan that there is nothing you can do to convince a Christian they're wrong - they 'just keep on believing no matter what you say' etc., etc... But this is exactly the same for you. You hold such strong beliefs that nothing anyone could ever say will convert you to Christianity.

Sorry if I've not added anything of any value for you Arkon, perhaps you think this because I generally haven't agreed with your take on things.

Graham

How is it the same? Personally I base my 'beliefs' on quantifiable facts, not fairy tales. That's the difference.

How is it the same ? If there was any proof at all he might be convinced .

Well they do...with a big cheesey grin on their face because they're going to Heaven and we aren't

"You Gotta have Faith"

Look, all I'm saying is that if two people have different views and neither will change their mind or conceid anything - how can one of the people involved moan that the other won't change their mind and think like them? Both are exactly the same in that respect, irrespective of what each believes.

The arguement that 'I'm obviously right and therefore the other guy's the stupid one for not thinking the way I do' or 'what I believe in is quantifiable and proven, and therefore I'm right' doesn't wash because I'm not convinced that what you believe in IS quantifiable and proven.

Graham

Well I'd change my mind if I saw some proof.