Re: Drought
 

Most of the new suburbs around the Hills Districts have recycled water - so no restrictions for them. Most homes years ago had water tanks, no mains water, but then Councils in the city suburbs banned them, for reasons only known to themselves, Wouldn't say there was any paranoia about using grey or rain water.

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Indeed - remember the letters going out when I was working in Sydney.

People put their money in to low risk at the end. Which reminds me - need to put more of my super into riskier funds as I have a fair way to go.

Re: Drought
 

necessity may be the mother of all invention, but it was your mother-in-law that created the necessity.

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Ballarat has been on stage 4 restrictions for about 15 months. It has 17,000 megalitres left in its reservoir, which equates to 13pct strorage, at 4 pct the water is deemed unusable. The town is using 1,000 Megalitres per month. I've no idea of the proportion of water tanks per household in Ballarat, but I can assure you it's very high. Nothing the Government has come up with in this town has worked so far. The Vic Government is in the process of building a pipeline to take some of the depleted reserves out of the Goulburn Murray reserves into the Ballarat region. Thats just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Water is about to become a very expensive commodity... So much so that it will affect everyone in this country adversely.

Re: Drought
 

The "trick" is to use a humidistat in parallel with the thermostat. You don't need to run the A/C - and I'm not talking evaporative here - for long to get excess watervapour out of the air and then even 80'F becomes comfortable. It's the humidity which most people find unpleasant.

By switching the A/C through a humidistat, leaving the thermostat wound up as far as it'll go, you save 60% or so of your electricity bills, create a more comfortable house and don't hve the problems associated with very low interior humidity.

Re: Drought
 

So why has the NSW fire Union instructed its members not to use grey water? I can't think of a much bigger waste than pumping lovely fresh drinking water onto a fire. Hell, you could even use sea water if it came to it.

S

Re: Drought
 

Think you'd have to ask them that question.

Re: Drought
 

Have you got a plasma/lcd TV?

Re: Drought
 

How about compost toilets? That would save quite a lot of water! I know, sounds gross......

Re: Drought
 

Hmm. And smells pretty similar too!

On the plus side, you can place a methane digester on the top, and produce your own gas for cooking, heating, BBQ's etc.

See, this self sufficiency thing is so easy, you can call me Tom Good!

S

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Good advice mate - think I know what you mean but will take a few days for it to sink in me old nut. :)

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they do scoop it up out of the sea - i've seen them do it.

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The main reason is probably the safety of the firefighters. Typically you would only get grey water near houses and in a house fire you need a reliable reticulated source of water (i.e. the town's supply). I'm sure if the town supply failed they would resort to a grey water if available (although they would be more likely to use a swimming pool or a dam in this case).

Sea water should only be used as a last resort for a number of reasons: it would need filtering before going into a tanker, it rusts the tanker and salty water is no good for foam production. Obviously on bush fires the water is taken from wherever it can be found (typically dams) but towns water if necessary.

:)

Re: Drought
 

But is there any reason that grey water can't be used from the fire tender?

S

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Heh... You've never been to the Isle of Sheppey have you ;)

Re: Drought
 

We have been to the local bush fire talks earlier in the year when they wanted to warn people of possible threat to come and the firemen there encouraged the likes of ourselves with bore water or tanks to fit the fire hose size fitting on at least one well stocked tap so that they could link straight on. They thought overall houses like ourselves in a smaller bush fire had a good chance due to pool, tanks and bore as long as they lasted long enough.

In a big fire they said there was little chance due to the sheer heat of the fire in major westerly winds igniting things by combustion alone before the flames even touched. We have seen such a fire up the mountains near us and as the flames were about 100ft high and like a pure orange wall think we will work on the old Monty Python adage of run away run away.

Lots of info on bush fire preparedness on http://www.fire.qld.gov.au/community...re/default.asp

On the meat front did anyone see that programme where the woman went to Peru to meet her fathers family who she had never met due to growing up in Aus. After a few days she was eating Guinea Pig the local delicacy despite being vegetarian. Are we allowed Guinea Pigs here if the price of meat gets bad it's an option.

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Yehp, definitely my kids have had a few of those. They taste a hell of a lot like Koalas as well ;)

Re: Drought
 

Hi Folks,

Surely there is only one answer why the the hell dont the local governments build desalination plants which turns sea water in to drinking water in each state where the droughts are then fill the reservoirs from these plants.

FANCYFELLA AND THE TRIBE :D

P.S.YOULL NEVER WALK ALONE ;)

Re: Drought
 

To desalinate water you need to either electrolyse the salt out, producing sodium and chlorine, or distill the pure water from the saline water producing salt.

Unfortunately, both of these methods are not very efficient, requiring large amounts of energy to be useful. Australia does have plenty of sunshine though - it strikes me that [a major] part of the power requirment could be drawn from solar furnaces running during the day, or just during the sunnier months to pump and fill the reservoirs.

Problem is, if you start a massive move towards solar energy like that, then you'll risk upsetting the miners union, and probably the coal power stations union, the coal users board of Australia, The board of Australian coal users, The Australian federation of coal power users, state govenments, which will (on principle) oppose the federal government, not to mention the fact that you would need certificate IV in solar power maintenance and the Certificate III in urban aqua desalinisation blah-de-blah-de-blah

Probably easier to just leave things as they are and learn how to do rain dances or something...

S

Re: Drought
 

:D

I took a boat from the Isle of Sheppey to Vlissingen once. Nice 6 hour crossing, smooth as a mill pond won lots of money playing cards and led the dancing in the on-board disco. Everyone was just sitting around the dance floor until me pissed-as-fart decided to strut my stuff. It got decidedly crowded then. Met a nice girl from Croatia.

:)

Re: Drought
 

It depends what you mean by a tender. If you're talking about a fire truck then they can take grey water. At the recent Morwell Open Cut fire the trucks (tankers) were taking in black water which was being recycled from that which had already been poured onto the fire. It also meant the water was coming out the hose at something between 20C and 30C (which kept the chill out for those of us doing the night shift).

If you're talking about some sort of supporting water truck containing grey water then the fire truck could take water from it. This could be used in areas where there is no town water supply. Basically away from the town a fire truck will get water from anywhere it can, including people's tanks, pools, etc. if it was necessary. In Victoria, firefighters have legal access to all and any water in a fire situation.

If you are talking about a hydrant then the hydrants are connected to the towns water and, fairly much, laying separate pipes to carry grey water to these hydrants wouldn't be practical or economic. I can't see the water savings being large enough to justify this. The money would probably be better spent elsewhere.

Most firefighters in the Union are paid firefighters. Paid firefighters are used in large towns and not in rural areas. In a town fire, given the choice between a static supply of water and a reticulated supply, you have to choose the reticulated supply for firefighter safety and for speed of suppression. Unless the reticulated supply is grey water then it's not going to be used.

Note that in Victoria there are just under 60,000 volunteer firefighters and about 500 paid firefighters.

So the question is not really about whether grey water can be used or not - it can. It's about whether it's safe and practical - I'd say it's not.

:)

Re: Drought
 

Hi

We're currently on Level 4 restrictions - with 15.4% in our 3 local dams - all too far inland to be of any real use. We expect to go to Level 5 within 6 months.

Here on the coast we have had good rainfall over the past 3 months or so but its all run off to sea.

The 2 local councils have joined together now to build a pipeline from the Hunter area to top up our supply when it gets down to 10%. Now the State government want to introduce a new water board for the area and the councils have reverted to type - and are concerned that (some of their) jobs will be lost.

There seems to be a great aversion to recycled water here which I think we were drinking in UK for years and it hasn't done us any harm - as far as I can tell :) That really has to be the way to go - desalination is too costly and too minimal and can only be a hole-plugger.

This, of course, is all part of the great global warming debate - we are probably only now seeing the start of the catastrophe. I am not hopeful that my grandchildren's children will have much of a world to live in unless all of the major governments release the money and encourage any initiatives which will start to reverse the current warming process.

OK - that's my two-penneth

Jim

Re: Drought
 

>>This, of course, is all part of the great global warming debate - we are probably only now seeing the start of the catastrophe. I am not hopeful that my grandchildren's children will have much of a world to live in unless all of the major governments release the money and encourage any initiatives which will start to reverse the current warming process.<<

Make that your children. It's been evident for some years that the permafrost is in the process of melting and releasing vast quantities of greenhouse gases, reinforcing the positive feedback of warming. It's probably too late to stop runaway warming within the next 30 years now.

I see Tony has now joined Al in the warming "debate". Each has four children - and the global population is the real problem in essence. Hypocrisy, ignorance or what?

Re: Drought
 

Global warming is a reality that's for sure but the cause is not certain. For every expert saying it is a man made problem there is another saying it is a natural issue.

Re: Drought
 

But generally you will find all the experts claiming its a natural issue are being funded by industry or the USA government!

Re: Drought
 

In our brigade we have a dedicated vehicle designed to fill tankers from any water supply we can find. It always goes out in support of the tanker. It is in high demand across VIC during fire season and is often out on 'strike' teams.

Failing a reticulated supply, and a dam, tank or pool, on the urban/rural interface, I have seen tankers go to hydrants - fill up, go back to the fire, fill another tanker/pumper which is daisy-chaining to another doing the attack then head back again.

If we can get our dedicated vehicle set up on the hydrant it makes it quicker too. I feel sorry for the family living across the road from the hydrant - 5 tankers ferrying water for a few hours must keep them up all heading around with lights flashing eerily.

Re: Drought
 

Sure, some are but some are not. Some of the 'man made' experts are part of the green lobby that also has it's own agenda, part of which goes far beyond environmental issues.

Re: Drought
 

Thanks for that - I was actually just talking about the fire truck. In NSW, the fire union has refused to use grey water in their trucks.

I guess (as with everything here) it is probably different in Vic.

S

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Haven't had the pleasure myself off Guinea Pig and not touching my Koalas... saving them for when I'm desperate... :D .

Re: Drought
 

I used to be agnostic on the cause(s) of global warming ad indeed on the actuality of it, given the rather complicated natural cycles upon cycles.

However, the evidence from many sources over the last couple of years has convinced me beyond any reasonable doubt that (a) Global warming is very real, (b) that we as a species are responsible for the majority of what we see happening and 9more recently) (c) the warming trend is rapidly increasing and there are quite a few positive feedback mechanisms that will almost certainly take us through the tipping point within the next ten years or so. After that, it won't matter *what* is done, the acceleration of warming through feedback will keep increasing.

I won't be around in 20 or 30 years but I don't think those under the age of about 20 now have much future to look forward to.

Re: Drought
 

It'll be just like 'Mad Max' out here then.

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I was wondering if it might be causing the large number of men with man-boobs :D

(As they can't filter out the high levels of oestrogen in the piss water caused by The Pill.)

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There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../09/do0907.xml

Re: Drought
 

Thank God for that then - we can all rest assured.

I am as far as it's possible to get from the treehugging, bearded besandalled environmentalists. But I have been convinced by the overwhelming factual evidence - OK, second hand, because I'm not privy to the data - from many sources. There are a few sceptics out there who, on investigation, appear to have "connections" and "funding" who quote apparently large numbers of authorities to further their cause. But when these authorities are themselves investigated it appears that either they have been misquoted or have retracted in many cases.

Recently some 10,000 scientists have signed an open letter deploring the anti-science attitude of the Bush administration, which is to a large extent the backer of the sceptical minority. They can't all be rabid commies or idiots.

The billions of tonnes of methane - which is many times as powerful a greenhouse gas as is CO2 - locked up in permafrost is probably going to be the final nail in the coffin when it's released. And it *is* being released in rapidly increasing quantities.

Re: Drought
 

The alpacas will probably act as canaries, giving fair warning! <g>

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Indeed. Something needs to be done. Incidentally bickering about Kyoto (which was the talk today) is a non starter. I couln't care who signs it or ratifies it as long as money is spent on the issues.

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I thought it was on the Mid Coast!

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No, I don't think Kyoto has much to do with it - the targets are far too conservative and in any case are not being met or even approached. As a paper exercise I suppose the politicians can say they're doing something but in practical terms it's a dead duck.

It's rather interesting to conjecture why SETI hasn't returned any positive results over several decades of listening. There must be billions of inhabitable planets out there, so why haven't we caught their leaked transmissions? Perhaps over billions of years intelligent species have evolved, have developed technology - and radio/TV etc - and have, within a couple of hundred years, destroyed their planets and died out. Their detectable "bubbles" of radio energy, just a couple of hundred light years thick would have a vanishingly small chance of passing us during our own brief existence and being detected. To me it does provide circumstantial evidence that intelligent life destroys itself PDQ!

I'm getting too deep!

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Atlantis.....ring any bells.

Re: Drought
 

Hmm wonder if they will go back to the Roman times, when they grew grapes for wine across the UK ? 3-4 degrees warmer back in the Roman times apparently, Must have been all those aqua ducts and catapults causing methane and CO2 emissions. Bloody Romans, what did they ever do for us. ;)


One things for sure, mankind had the means to change it's environment, time to stop panicking and ensure a water supply, is my point.