ozzieeagle

double post

moneypenny20

Without a doubt it's more complicated, I assumed that was a given.

My second post addressed this one


I don't disagree with any of this. I just don't necessarily agree that just because we now know that something done in the past was wrong is sorted by saying sorry. I'm not convinced it's helpful to anyone don't believe it enables people to move forward.

Do we expect the Normans to apologise to the people of the United Kingdom for raping and pillaging? It was possibly just as bad as the stolen generation if so old that it's off the radar.

I don't believe I ever stated that all indigenous people were separate, it is patently obvious that a large percentage have assimilated with the 'white' people. I would imagine (not knowing any to ask) that they are intelligent enough to know that one white man, maybe talking for everyone, maybe not, will change anything.

If someone 40 years ago, had murdered my father and said sorry now, would not change a thing in my world, it would still have happened and I would still be probably unforgiving.

It's not a simple problem and there is no simple solution and I wouldn't assume to know all the ins and outs. The thread asked for my opinion - whether that be right or wrong in other people's eyes.

quoll

I voted no for several reasons.

Firstly the practice of removing children from neglect and abusive situations - including removal from unmarried mothers was universal practice of the time. Thousands of English kids were taken from their homes for the same reasons and transported to an alien culture. Whilst we may shake our heads and beat our breasts about the barbarism of it now, those decisions were made in what was believed to be the best interests of the children. Sure some of the institutions into which they were placed were abominable and no one disputes that but this was not genocide it was standard social work practice, race was irrelevant other than that the indigenous communities didnt want to have anything to do with mixed race kids - they were the bottom of the pile and subsequently neglected and abused more than full bloods.

Secondly, there is a great deal of myth about this, people who are in the vanguard of the $tolen generations have been revealed as not having been stolen - many were given up by parents who thought they would have a better shot at life (and many who did so are now productive and well functioning members of society and grateful for the chances that they received) or who were in such a dreadful state of neglect that had they not been removed they may well not have survived anyway. Even the author of the Bringing them home has acknowledged that he overstated some of his cases and few legal actions which have been brought demanding compensation have been successful. Lowitja O'D for example who touted herself as stolen was in fact dumped by her Irish father - she has done well out of it too.

Thirdly, my biggest fear is that this decision will paralyse welfare agencies and see children currently being raped and abused in indigenous communities left to their fate. We have already seen that in practice up in Queensland in the past few months, I am sure we all remember them.

I have worked with kids for long enough and seen some absolutely horrific situations where we have pleaded for them to be removed from absolutely unspeakeable conditions (black kids and white) but invariably they are returned only to suffer more abuse. That is heartbreaking and no wonder why workers burn out, they care too much. This decision is going to be deadly for indigenous kids and if there is an apology to be given it should be for those kids raped, abused and killed by political correctness.

BadgeIsBack

I'd want to see the small print of this apology. Seems to me that the govt are doing it because due to the way it has been framed they can get away with no or little repercussions and gain some kudos with liberals.

Naturally any compo is ruled out - but could a higher court rule otherwise when some ''Mabo'' style appeal is made by an enterprising aborginal?

Cheetah7

Talking of South Africa for a moment, I was shocked when my brother told me about when he spent a few months there (ages ago) and there were drinking fountains for 'whites' and 'blacks'. He laughed at some black children drinking out of the 'white mans' fountain, then watching the horror/disgust on the 'white mans' face.

Even in Namibia our guide on our tour told us of some white South Africans he had on a trip that insisted that they had to eat seperately from 'the white man'.

I worked as a care assistant when I was 19 and lived in a nurses home, this South African doctor complained about a black female docter 'being allowed to live on the same floor'.

This is an argument that I really don't get, how some white South Africans really do believe that SA belongs to them and the black South Africans are second class people.

Although things have moved on and progressed but it is still shocking that it happened in the first place.


With regards to the past, I think it is essential to learn from the past in order to progress.

It is when you repeat the same mistakes and therefore history that it is a problem.

It is hard to relate to history sometimes let alone to say sorry for something that happened many years ago but in some cases you have to in order to move forward.

But certain things must never happen again and that is one of them.

So is believing you are superior because of your colour.

B.Goodwill

I work with aboriginals on a daily basis, and it is very sad to see what has happened to the culture.

The sad fact, from what I have seen, is that all that appears to remain of the culture is one of violence and substance abuse.

I get the impression that aboriginals fall into a few categories on the 'sorry issue.' For a minority they will maybe appreciate it, for another vocal minority that you see protesting about various indigenous related issues, they will never be happy no matter what we do. Then for the vast majority, living in cities, and on reservations, they couldn't give a toss, as they are just trying to get by on a day to day basis, let alone thinking about what is going on in Canberra, which is a world away from places like the Cape.

I don't think compensation is the answer, but I guess it also depends on what happens to the money. If it went strait to individuals, I think it would cause even more problems than there are already, as the money is a large proportion of cases would just go on grog. I'm afraid many people may not like hearing that, but I see it every day, your hard earned taxes which are given to many of these people go strait on booze. If you were to give these people a couple of grand in compensation, you would be as-well just giving themselves a gun to finish themselves off with.

People talk about the life expectancy gap between indigenous folk and white Australians, its really very simple, aboriginals do not live as long as us because of substance abuse, and health issues, because many make no attempt to take care of themselves. More aboriginals are in prison because the vast amount of crime, at least in north Queensland is committed by aboriginals. Of course some would argue there are reasons for this, and that we have to take some responsibility for it, that may well be the case but that's another argument altogether.

Most of the aboriginal communities are a mess, massive amounts of money are sunk into them by the government, but then the inhabitants just wreck the place, crime and disorder are rampant. This of course means that the people who could maybe have a positive effect on these communities, by way of education and improving health, people like teachers and nurses, don't want to work in them, and who can blame them? Go and visit places like Arakune and Palm Island and you will see for yourselves.

I don't know what the answer for these people is, I don't think anyone knows, I have asked a few aboriginal people who are in positions of responsibility, and they do not know either. I do know that drip feeding them money, and paying them to do nothing is not the answer, all we have created is a culture of dependency.

chrispy

Also all the individual States have already gone through this process of saying sorry and that did not lead to a landslide of compensation claims..

There is a lot of misunderstanding of what indigenous people expect from this.

renth

OK, I know what you mean, I though you meant two tier as in the Aboriginals were somehow hard done by. I agree with you. Well, In any event it is "two tier".

Remember the poster who owned the backpackers in Geraldton who got robbed by aboriginals almost daily and the cops did nothing even though they know who it was.

seang

Top post. I hope the "white" stolen generation get the same apologies if the government are in a sorry mood.

quoll

I think there is a very clear understanding of what at least a small group of indigenous people expect from this - even if you take media reports with a pinch of salt there is still enough evidence that this is the way it is going to go. There have been a few claims against states but not many of them have been successful - I think there is the expectation that compo will flow much bigger from the federal government trough than the states. There have been enough media reports to suggest that apology without compo is going to get us absolutely nowhere at all and compo is perhaps the worst thing we can do for a society which refuses to take responsibility for its own actions. We have been throwing money at this community for many years and many fat cats have got even fatter in the process but those poor sods who live in the communities have seen just the occasional skerrick of the largesse.

I am willing to bet that Noel Pearson isnt going to be up there amongst the invited - he is one of the few who is prepared to stand up and promote their need to take responsibility instead of wallowing in the victim mentality that pervades their thinking.

I am quite fearful of what is going to happen in Canberra this week. We have reports of hundreds coming down with probably not enough money to return and not enough to get any sort of accommodation - of which there is very little anyway.

Bix

Think it was Kali but changed her username.
Back in the UK now after splitting with hubby.

Bix

Voted no.

It means nothing and will achieve nothing.

seang

Tent city again???

quoll

Probably but there is a concern that there are going to be too many people and a number of them who are making their own way here are not going to have the resources to go back again. There is already considerable antagonism between the tent embassy mob and the local mob, add some alcohol and a mix of very volatile and emotional people and heavens knows what will happen. Hopefully it will all be very civilized and cathartic but history would sort of argue against that.

ozzieeagle

I do take your point, however this country is full of anomalies like this. Where I live in the city of Moreland there is a cultural tolerance given to the local Muslim population that is slightly different to the other people in the municipality. Another anomaly I can think of would be those massive club raves where people openly pop disco biscuits. I can recall some from the UK as well, where I lived in Peckham, I remember two West Indian girls getting arrested for shoplifting, as they were taken to the divvy van, a massive mob of local West Indians gathered, and the police had to let them go for fear of causing a riot. Oh and of course, the Werribee rapists here in Melbourne, who raped a girl mob handed and took video and posted that on the internet... they got a slap on the wrist because they were deemed too young.

I think this two tier system you talk about is a misguided softly softly approach by the police, and applies to police work across the country in certain situations. As the divide becomes less these anomalies will lessen.

It's definitely not right for the police and authorities to carry on like this, but its not a universal right for all the people under the different ethnic banners either... It depends on the situation at the time.