The Cricket Thread
#571
#572
Re: The Cricket Thread
Lords is lords. If you want cheer leaders and mexican waves go to Melbourne. If you want the tradition go to Lords. You really need to get out more. Do youself a favour and go and see a Test at another ground other than Melbourne. Plenty of places sh8t all over Melbourne. I'd recommend Lords, Birmingham, The Oval, SCG and the Adelaide Oval. That way you can be in a position to actually pass an honest judgement.
And 'Ponting was a poor captain'.
And Johnson can't bowl in England and shouldn't be in the team (was that 3 wickets on a flat pitch at an excellent economy rate and not one of the England batsmen got on top of him?)
Johnson, Hazelwood, Starc and Lyon go together as a unit and Mitchell Marsh has been added to this and bowled well I thought with the top wickets of Stokes and Cook. Smith got his two overs which you were calling for and was quickly removed from the attack.
It will be interesting now to see how long Australia bat in their 2nd innings to allow sufficient time and taking the dodgy at times weather forecast for the last 2 days, particularly tomorrow. England batted from just after tea day 2 to just after tea day 3 so Clarke will probably factor in at least 5 sessions and go until around lunchtime tomorrow.
Stokes and Cook batted very well, all credit to them but with the size of Australia's score and Buttler etc to follow they needed very big hundreds which they didn't get.
Last edited by OzTennis; Jul 18th 2015 at 3:59 pm.
#573
Re: The Cricket Thread
We've had this conversation too many times already so the bait on the hook wasn't taken.
And 'Ponting was a poor captain'.
And Johnson can't bowl in England and shouldn't be in the team (was that 3 wickets on a flat pitch at an excellent economy rate and not one of the England batsmen got on top of him?)
Johnson, Hazelwood, Starc and Lyon go together as a unit and Mitchell Marsh has been added to this and bowled well I thought with the top wickets of Stokes and Cook. Smith got his two overs which you were calling for and was quickly removed from the attack.
It will be interesting now to see how long Australia bat in their 2nd innings to allow sufficient time and taking the dodgy at times weather forecast for the last 2 days, particularly tomorrow. England batted from just after tea day 2 to just after tea day 3 so Clarke will probably factor in at least 5 sessions and go until around lunchtime tomorrow.
Stokes and Cook batted very well, all credit to them but with the size of Australia's score and Buttler etc to follow they needed very big hundreds which they didn't get.
And 'Ponting was a poor captain'.
And Johnson can't bowl in England and shouldn't be in the team (was that 3 wickets on a flat pitch at an excellent economy rate and not one of the England batsmen got on top of him?)
Johnson, Hazelwood, Starc and Lyon go together as a unit and Mitchell Marsh has been added to this and bowled well I thought with the top wickets of Stokes and Cook. Smith got his two overs which you were calling for and was quickly removed from the attack.
It will be interesting now to see how long Australia bat in their 2nd innings to allow sufficient time and taking the dodgy at times weather forecast for the last 2 days, particularly tomorrow. England batted from just after tea day 2 to just after tea day 3 so Clarke will probably factor in at least 5 sessions and go until around lunchtime tomorrow.
Stokes and Cook batted very well, all credit to them but with the size of Australia's score and Buttler etc to follow they needed very big hundreds which they didn't get.
As for your comment about Ricky Ponting being an excellent captain and you only have to look at his stats to know this. Well, only Aussies believe he was an excellent captain. Everyone knows he was the second choice captain and never would have even been in the running had Warne been able to trust his mum as a pharmacist and keep his fingers off his phone and out of his jocks. If you want to cite stats to support Ponting with his win loss ratio. Well I will fire that back at you with this. Ponting simply had to lead out a team of all-time greats. When he was "leading" the likes of Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath, he barely did any captaincy. Warne chose his own fields, so did McGrath. When you have that amount of talent, captaincy and coaching is really such an easy task. Ask Warne what he thought of John Buchanon. He thought he was useless and openly said that team didn't need a coach.
So, let's look at Ponting's captaincy without those greats in his team, which would really test his captaincy credentials:
From 25th Jan 2008 (after Gilchrist, McGrath, Warne and Langer had already retired only Hayden carried on for another year)
Matches: 37
Won: 17
Lost: 13
Drawn: 7
That's a win ratio of 46%
Strauss had a captaincy win ratio of 49%, but even the most ardent Eng fan will tell you he was a crap captain on the field.
Just because you lead a group of excellent players to win plenty of games, does not make you a great captain. You only had to listen to the C9 cheerleading commentary team during his captaincy to know they were not impressed with his captaincy.
#574
Re: The Cricket Thread
The more and more I read your cricketing posts the less and less I believe you have the background you claim to have. I'm not sure how you can blame anyone in Eng from thinking Johnson is not capable of bowling in our conditions when his form and stats up until the Lord's test tell a simple story, he couldn't. He had one good test in 2009, at Headingley off memory, and even then it was just one innings, in the other he got carted around. Bar that he sprayed it all over the place, a bit like Warner outside a pub after kicking out time. Granted he did actually bowl well at Cardiff, but again his figures were woeful. You cannot blame anyone from making the statement that Johnson can't bowl in Eng. Add to the fact that he is one of the most fragile bowlers on tour, he's one breakdown away from getting free lifetime membership to the RAC..
As for your comment about Ricky Ponting being an excellent captain and you only have to look at his stats to know this. Well, only Aussies believe he was an excellent captain. Everyone knows he was the second choice captain and never would have even been in the running had Warne been able to trust his mum as a pharmacist and keep his fingers off his phone and out of his jocks. If you want to cite stats to support Ponting with his win loss ratio. Well I will fire that back at you with this. Ponting simply had to lead out a team of all-time greats. When he was "leading" the likes of Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath, he barely did any captaincy. Warne chose his own fields, so did McGrath. When you have that amount of talent, captaincy and coaching is really such an easy task. Ask Warne what he thought of John Buchanon. He thought he was useless and openly said that team didn't need a coach.
So, let's look at Ponting's captaincy without those greats in his team, which would really test his captaincy credentials:
From 25th Jan 2008 (after Gilchrist, McGrath, Warne and Langer had already retired only Hayden carried on for another year)
Matches: 37
Won: 17
Lost: 13
Drawn: 7
That's a win ratio of 46%
Strauss had a captaincy win ratio of 49%, but even the most ardent Eng fan will tell you he was a crap captain on the field.
Just because you lead a group of excellent players to win plenty of games, does not make you a great captain. You only had to listen to the C9 cheerleading commentary team during his captaincy to know they were not impressed with his captaincy.
As for your comment about Ricky Ponting being an excellent captain and you only have to look at his stats to know this. Well, only Aussies believe he was an excellent captain. Everyone knows he was the second choice captain and never would have even been in the running had Warne been able to trust his mum as a pharmacist and keep his fingers off his phone and out of his jocks. If you want to cite stats to support Ponting with his win loss ratio. Well I will fire that back at you with this. Ponting simply had to lead out a team of all-time greats. When he was "leading" the likes of Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath, he barely did any captaincy. Warne chose his own fields, so did McGrath. When you have that amount of talent, captaincy and coaching is really such an easy task. Ask Warne what he thought of John Buchanon. He thought he was useless and openly said that team didn't need a coach.
So, let's look at Ponting's captaincy without those greats in his team, which would really test his captaincy credentials:
From 25th Jan 2008 (after Gilchrist, McGrath, Warne and Langer had already retired only Hayden carried on for another year)
Matches: 37
Won: 17
Lost: 13
Drawn: 7
That's a win ratio of 46%
Strauss had a captaincy win ratio of 49%, but even the most ardent Eng fan will tell you he was a crap captain on the field.
Just because you lead a group of excellent players to win plenty of games, does not make you a great captain. You only had to listen to the C9 cheerleading commentary team during his captaincy to know they were not impressed with his captaincy.
Yes, let's take away Federer's serve and forehand and look at what he's got (an analogy to your analysis of let's look at part of Ponting's career). Look at it overall and he is 2nd only to Graeme Smith in terms of tests won. That's not a poor captain. Also, does a team of star players always equal a star team? It's an inponderable but you are suggesting that early team could turn up with any captain and win. Possible but not guaranteed.
Re Ch 9 commentary team, that will include Shane Warne who has never stopped being miffed about being passed over for the captaincy due to 'personal issues' and has never stopped telling the world how he was the brains behind all Ponting and his great mate Clarke have done. I don't get Ch 9 incidentally, Sky, only when I'm back during the southern summer do I get it. However, we have Hussain, Atherton, Botham, Warne, Holding, Lloyd and Ponting on Sky currently.
As for Johnson, anyone knows how the recent Johnson and the earlier Johnson are two different bowlers. On the back of the 5-0 and Johnson dominating England it was suggested he shouldn't be in the team because he can't bowl in English conditions. Well he is a different bowler, feared by the opposition and he's just bowled particularly well in London and well without luck in Cardiff. I'm not going back to ages ago, I'm looking at him now.
Getting back to this match! 1 session of over 100 runs, declare, 5 sessions to survive.
Last edited by OzTennis; Jul 19th 2015 at 8:40 am.
#575
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Cricket Thread
He couldn't even win an Ashes away. Nor has Michael Clarke, but Clarke has displayed adaptability. When Ponting's record started to decline after Warne left his side, and McGrath and others left, Ponting wasn't able to adapt. Clarke has displayed his ability to adapt and change. Again those who know their cricket know how poor Ponting's captaincy was - if you don't you are just displaying your lack of knowledge again.
I've always said he's the worst captain since Kim Hughes. Disagree?
You really need to do you reading again. Try around posts 486. It not very sporting to make up stories. Lets confirm for the 2nd or 3rd time. I said I wanted Hazelwood, Harris and Starc to be the quicks and Johnson to carry the drinks. You didn't like that for some strange reason. 1 and a half tests in and Johnson is coming last in the bowling stats, no matter whether you look at wickets taken or average. So to this point, I am absolutely correct and you are completely wrong. Thanks for acknowledging your poor selection for Cardiff. Just show's your lack of knowledge in the game again. Would and could I change my mind moving forward in the series? Absolutely I can and will depending on all sorts of factors such as conditions of the wickets.
Johnson, Hazelwood, Starc and Lyon go together as a unit and Mitchell Marsh has been added to this and bowled well I thought with the top wickets of Stokes and Cook. Smith got his two overs which you were calling for and was quickly removed from the attack.
It will be interesting now to see how long Australia bat in their 2nd innings to allow sufficient time and taking the dodgy at times weather forecast for the last 2 days, particularly tomorrow. England batted from just after tea day 2 to just after tea day 3 so Clarke will probably factor in at least 5 sessions and go until around lunchtime tomorrow.
Stokes and Cook batted very well, all credit to them but with the size of Australia's score and Buttler etc to follow they needed very big hundreds which they didn't get.
It will be interesting now to see how long Australia bat in their 2nd innings to allow sufficient time and taking the dodgy at times weather forecast for the last 2 days, particularly tomorrow. England batted from just after tea day 2 to just after tea day 3 so Clarke will probably factor in at least 5 sessions and go until around lunchtime tomorrow.
Stokes and Cook batted very well, all credit to them but with the size of Australia's score and Buttler etc to follow they needed very big hundreds which they didn't get.
#576
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,787
Re: The Cricket Thread
They Give Cricket a Bad Name.........
#577
Re: The Cricket Thread
It's 1 all let's face it, top order cook-excepted not good, ... Hey, my team won today and we are a chance for the semis with one game to come so it's not all bad :fingers crossed:
#578
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,787
Re: The Cricket Thread
I have been trying to avoid the cricket but Bernie is taking great delight in pointing out the score as often as possible with a big smile on his face
#579
Re: The Cricket Thread
Of course he was a poor captain. Everyone knows Warne pulled the strings, positioned fields, made the declaration calls, and the like. If you don't know this you are hanging in the wrong circles or searching the wrong websites.
He couldn't even win an Ashes away. Nor has Michael Clarke, but Clarke has displayed adaptability. When Ponting's record started to decline after Warne left his side, and McGrath and others left, Ponting wasn't able to adapt. Clarke has displayed his ability to adapt and change. Again those who know their cricket know how poor Ponting's captaincy was - if you don't you are just displaying your lack of knowledge again.
I've always said he's the worst captain since Kim Hughes. Disagree?
You really need to do you reading again. Try around posts 486. It not very sporting to make up stories. Lets confirm for the 2nd or 3rd time. I said I wanted Hazelwood, Harris and Starc to be the quicks and Johnson to carry the drinks. You didn't like that for some strange reason. 1 and a half tests in and Johnson is coming last in the bowling stats, no matter whether you look at wickets taken or average. So to this point, I am absolutely correct and you are completely wrong. Thanks for acknowledging your poor selection for Cardiff. Just show's your lack of knowledge in the game again. Would and could I change my mind moving forward in the series? Absolutely I can and will depending on all sorts of factors such as conditions of the wickets.
He couldn't even win an Ashes away. Nor has Michael Clarke, but Clarke has displayed adaptability. When Ponting's record started to decline after Warne left his side, and McGrath and others left, Ponting wasn't able to adapt. Clarke has displayed his ability to adapt and change. Again those who know their cricket know how poor Ponting's captaincy was - if you don't you are just displaying your lack of knowledge again.
I've always said he's the worst captain since Kim Hughes. Disagree?
You really need to do you reading again. Try around posts 486. It not very sporting to make up stories. Lets confirm for the 2nd or 3rd time. I said I wanted Hazelwood, Harris and Starc to be the quicks and Johnson to carry the drinks. You didn't like that for some strange reason. 1 and a half tests in and Johnson is coming last in the bowling stats, no matter whether you look at wickets taken or average. So to this point, I am absolutely correct and you are completely wrong. Thanks for acknowledging your poor selection for Cardiff. Just show's your lack of knowledge in the game again. Would and could I change my mind moving forward in the series? Absolutely I can and will depending on all sorts of factors such as conditions of the wickets.
Let's talk about what has been happening on the field, this series. You said Australia bowled in the wrong places and played the wrong shots in Cardiff, picked the wrong team, can't think outside of the box, Broad and Anderson superbly exploited English conditions, bowled in the right places, the English batsmen picked the right balls to hit blah, blah. Less than a week later Australia score over 800 for the loss of 10 wickets and England score just above 400 for the loss of 20 wickets. Anderson was wicketless for the whole match.
England pathetic in the extreme; 37 overs all out on a flat pitch but much credit to the whole unit of Johnson, Hazlewood, Starc, Lyon and Marsh in extracting something; it wasn't only pathetic batting.
I'm curious about your anti-Johnson stance. I've just seen the post match analysis and Botham, Hussain, Warne, Ponting etc were singing the praises of him highly. Hussain said it pains him as an Englishmen to say it but there is no more magnificent sight in cricket than Johnson steaming in around 90 mph and worrying all batsmen. You tried hard to quote some averages etc but he had match figures of 6 for 80 off 31 overs (Anderson 0/137, Broad 4/125). He also ran out Stokes (stupid dismissal I know but an added contribution). The English commentators also said that England's best batsman, Root, finds it difficult to play Johnson. Man of the last series, carry the drinks in Cardiff, I question that and it's strange. Yeah right. Study a bit of sports psychology to see why Mitch will always be in the team.
Ponting was also saying that there is Johnson Mk 2 after his injury when he went away with Dennis Lillee and remodelled his run up and action. A lot of the comments about Johnson refer to Mk 1. All of those commentators to a man also said what is impressive is how Australia bowled as a unit. Even Mitch Marsh got 3 vital wickets. It's not about one individual but the team.
England will play 2 spinners at Edgbaston and have to drop at least Ballance, Lyth doesn't look the answer; Cook has had 1 good score in the last 14 innings against Australia but will keep his place - easy fodder for the 3 fast bowlers currently though. Bairstow might come into consideration as they need more batting - Buttler does well against lesser test teams but hasn't done anything of note in his 4 hits so far. The best batsman, Root, needs to be at 3 and has to do a job like Smith.
Last edited by OzTennis; Jul 19th 2015 at 5:11 pm.
#580
Re: The Cricket Thread
I don't disagree with any of that. Our batting continues to be an issue for us and I reckon Edgbaston will be worse for us with Lyon, Smith and Clarke all likely to have an impact with the ball. This next toss will be the most important of the series. I reckon we will drop Lyth and move Root to opener, which he has done for us before. Bell to 3. Maybe also swap Ballance for Bairstow who has been getting some good runs in County in the last few weeks
Last edited by Broad Shoulders; Jul 19th 2015 at 9:23 pm.
#581
Re: The Cricket Thread
I bet ... Regroup and bounce back time ... Maybe on a pitch that hasn't been completely doctored ... Losing isn't so bad but losing like that ...
#582
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Cricket Thread
I'm curious about your anti-Johnson stance. I've just seen the post match analysis and Botham, Hussain, Warne, Ponting etc were singing the praises of him highly. Hussain said it pains him as an Englishmen to say it but there is no more magnificent sight in cricket than Johnson steaming in around 90 mph and worrying all batsmen. You tried hard to quote some averages etc but he had match figures of 6 for 80 off 31 overs (Anderson 0/137, Broad 4/125). He also ran out Stokes (stupid dismissal I know but an added contribution). The English commentators also said that England's best batsman, Root, finds it difficult to play Johnson. Man of the last series, carry the drinks in Cardiff, I question that and it's strange. Yeah right. Study a bit of sports psychology to see why Mitch will always be in the team.
Ponting was also saying that there is Johnson Mk 2 after his injury when he went away with Dennis Lillee and remodelled his run up and action. A lot of the comments about Johnson refer to Mk 1. All of those commentators to a man also said what is impressive is how Australia bowled as a unit. Even Mitch Marsh got 3 vital wickets. It's not about one individual but the team.
Ponting was also saying that there is Johnson Mk 2 after his injury when he went away with Dennis Lillee and remodelled his run up and action. A lot of the comments about Johnson refer to Mk 1. All of those commentators to a man also said what is impressive is how Australia bowled as a unit. Even Mitch Marsh got 3 vital wickets. It's not about one individual but the team.
I like Johnson as a bowler, and he's my first pick for an Australian or South African series. He should be in the squad for this tour, no question on that. But he's not my automatic first pick. He wouldn't have made my starting 3 bowlers for Cardiff had Harris had been fit. It would have been Starc, Harris and Hazelwood - and the results prove that to be correct. After what we saw in the first test, Starc was my first pick, after this test, its Hazlewood. Want to contest that? Why would you.
You aren't reading what I wrote properly - you are glossing over the meat and formulating what you want to believe in your own head and really proving yourself to be uneducated in cricket.
Last edited by Beoz; Jul 20th 2015 at 12:00 am.
#583
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: The Cricket Thread
I don't disagree with any of that. Our batting continues to be an issue for us and I reckon Edgbaston will be worse for us with Lyon, Smith and Clarke all likely to have an impact with the ball. This next toss will be the most important of the series. I reckon we will drop Lyth and move Root to opener, which he has done for us before. Bell to 3. Maybe also swap Ballance for Bairstow who has been getting some good runs in County in the last few weeks