JenniGee

Hi - going on from this, I've read somewhere, I think on the Trinity Chambers website, that the UK Courts only retain control for the first 3 months after the child has left the jurisdiction. After that, the child's habitual residence becomes Australia & as such is subject to Australian Law.

Therefore, I would understand the case to be that if the father wants to continue contact, he needs to make an Application through the Australian system for this to happen. If, at the ages of 10 & 12 the kids are saying they don't want to travel alone all the way to the UK without a family member, I don't think there's a Court in the land that would make them.

This is only my understanding though - so would need checking out properly.

ghost rider

correct

moneypenny20

Also I would think he doesn't have a leg to stand on. The children aren't saying they won't ever go to the UK again, simply that they are unhappy having to travel alone to see him and asking that he comes to them, to see where and how they live sounds more than reasonable, especially as they are happy to go when mum can travel with them. No judge, UK or Australian is going to see things the father's way on this particular issue.

badassbrickie

when we were granted removal order, one of the conditions was that we have to obtain a 'mirror order' in australia. this is the same order as UK but by australian law, so if we did not comply we could face prosecution in ausytralia.

if a mirror order was obtained i would check with an australian solicitor as it would be legally binding.
regards
lisa

cranfordno2

My daughters order does have this requirement for a " MIRROR ORDER" but could not find a solicitor here in Melbourne that thought they could handle it.
She tried several and each thought that full Court sitting the same as UK would be needed.In the UK it cost something like 17,000 UK pounds .So far it still on hold .She suffers terrrible email abuse ,aggression and threats even after two years and is desparate to have it accepted here. Many thanks for your interest badassbrickie and others.

Dreamer

I have nothing to add to this thread really but i have been both moved and angered reading through alot of the posts. Im so sorry you have to go through this, i can't begin to imagine what state id be in if it was me and my daughters. Thankfully im not in that position though, but my heart goes out to all of you.

BethandAndrew

What is this 'Mirror Order'?
Do you mean you have been granted the RFTJ order in the UK......but one of the conditions on it was to get exactly the same order again in Oz?
Bit of a strange request as the order allows the child to emigrate.......which you have already done by moving to Oz!!
Beth x x

badassbrickie

hi no a mirror order mirrors the uk one, and its conditions.

when an order is granted there are usually conditions such as returning to uk each year, daily contact by email, etc.

by obtaining a mirror order in australia (which means going to australian court! morreeee money!!) you will have to comply with the terms, if not as the order would have been produced by an australian court, you could face prosecution in australia.

BethandAndrew

The only condition on my RFTJ order was I have to tell my ex my address in Oz, and every time I change address. I haven't got to do the mirror order in Oz.
Beth x x

NikiL

The only condition on ours is that we have to leave by October 1st! (Maybe I should give DIAC a nudge )

badassbrickie

lucky you, wish id got off so lightly!!!

our condititions are:

we have to return to uk for a MINIMUM of 4 weeks a year (how wehn we will be working, il never know!)

DAILY contact by webcam, email and phone

and should my ex come over to oz we have to arrange his accomodation!

and we have to get a mirror order to ensure we stick to the order

starting to think if its worth going after all, thinking now it is going to be impossible, but wait until were there, and trying to put it into effect

NikiL

Bloody hell fire!!!!!!!

It makes things "easier" for us as my stepsons mother wants nothing to do with him, and told the poor bugger that a couple of weeks ago. Just got one last Stat Dec to get off her next week to change the residency order and then hopefully we never have to have anything to do with her ever again. She's agreed the residency order can be changed but can't be bothered to go to court, but she'll meet me at the solicitors & then mid March we're all done

I couldn't cope with that list of demands, thats seriously excessive

JenniGee

You mean the Court WANT you out of the country? Good Lord, just how much trouble did you give them???

We're just waiting for a Court date now - I've sent off all the papers & will use the waiting time to put together a folder of information.

In the meantime I now have to bite my tongue & keep my temper whilst the ex constantly texts, msns & rings the girls.....though to be fair, it does seem to be dying down a little now. He's also offering to do all the travelling to see them, which even up until the end of last month, he was determined he shouldn't have to do any! Aaaargh!!!

Anyway... my best wishes & support to anyone else who is trying to go through this hassle for their kids

BethandAndrew

WOW.....you must have caught the Judge on a very good day!!!!! Well Done you!!!!

OMG Returning to the UK for 4 weeks a year!!!! That's a fair bit unrealistic........especially financially for you!!!! :curse:
I'm presuming these RFTJ orders are only valid until the child reaches the age of 18......I've got 6 and a half years to go if it's true
Really feel for you though with all of these conditions placed on you......I guess if you can prove it would financially ruin you by doing it the Oz Judge may waive certain conditions.
Good luck with everything hun!!!
Beth x x

NikiL

It kinda helped the judge had just come back from Australia himself

It was a fair point he made in that if he gave us free rein to leave whenever then we could choose that to be in 3 years when SS could possibly have a relationship with his mother, be midway through high school etc. He did say that if the visa process dragged on longer and we were looking at Christmas for example then just go back & he'd extend the date.

You should have the court date very soon, and they usually give you a date within 6 weeks of the application going in (ours was only 3 weeks after we got the paperwork back which was a bit scarily quick!) so hopefully you'll be sorted soon. They will almost certainly refer it to CAFCASS as well, so expect there to be a discussion with them before you go into court. Realistically in the position you're in I would have thought you'll be going back at least once after the initial hearing, but keep us posted as to when your date is.

Very best of luck to you
Niki xx